Sara Pryde 0:00
To be me and to feel truly myself, to feel aligned, to feel in integrity with all parts of myself, I have to be mythic like I I have to, basically, I don't want to use the word brand, because that's, that's not quite what I mean, but I have to dramatize. And so it's weird, because I'm always creating distance, even when I go outside and I go to the store, I've already armored up in this way that I am with myself and I am for myself, and I am by myself. And it's the Sarah show, and I'm not involving other people. Welcome
Josh Lavine 0:38
to another episode of what it's like to be you. I'm Josh Lavine, your host. And on this show, I interview accurately typed guests about their experience as their Enneagram type. Today, my guest is Sarah pride, who is a trauma informed massage therapist in Wyoming, and her typing is self, press, sexual, six, wing 7614, trifix. So it's a pretty rare typing, especially the instinctual stacking, self, persexual. And in this episode, we talk a lot about the inherent contradictions and competing forces in Sarah's type structure. So Sarah being social blind and also an attachment type. How that works. That's always been a point of confusion for me, especially with six actually, because always thought of six as anchoring to external sources of support and guidance. And I was confused about, how do you do that in a way that's not taking social into account? So we explore that in this conversation, and also we explore how Sarah, being a self pressed sexual type, is doing that self press sexual thing of saturating herself in very specific flavors and moods and vibes that sort of self focused, and also doing that with triple frustration in her try fix so six, wing seven and then one in four. All three frustration types are present, which means that she's carrying in her a sense of a preciously held inner ideal of the perfect environment that she wants to be in, and spending a lot of time and attention creating and curating that perfect environment so that she can inhabit that and also, as a six, accidentally making herself more available to people than she wants to be. And so lot of really interesting stuff in this episode. And also, Sarah is just really delightful, and I found her really articulate and refreshing to hear a core six talk about their experience as a six, but with both triple frustration and social blinds being such a part of their core structure, if you're curious about what these terms mean, what is self preservation, what is sexual What does a six entail? What is 714, what are frustration and rejection? All that information can be found at the Enneagram school.com and I especially recommend that you check out our intro course, where we give beginners an on ramp, and also advanced students a refresher on the basics of how all the disparate concepts of the Enneagram come together to form a coherent framework. These conversations that I do on this show reference those concepts very freely and fluidly. And so if you'd like a more rigorous and structured grounding in what those concepts are, then I recommend you go check that out. Go check that out. Okay, without further ado, I'm very excited for you to learn from my friend Sarah. So let's start with, can you just talk about the process of preparing for this interview? What was that like for you? What was that like for you?
Sara Pryde 3:22
I said, Yes, I did take about 30 minutes ish to really check in to see if it was something that I was ready to do. And then remembered, I'll never be ready to do something like this, because it will mean that I'll be visible. And being visible is anathema to me. It's I don't want to be in the light, and I don't like to be seen. So as soon as I said yes, the anxiety started, and it kind of felt actually, that was funny, that I did that it felt like champagne bubbles, or, you know, something like a bubbly, yeah, it was like in my stomach, and we were weeks out from, you know, I knew it would take time for this process. So I knew that I was going to be experiencing that for weeks, yeah, and I was, and I was going to, I was going to get to practice all of the skills that I've been working on with, you know, regard to managing uncertainty and not being in control of everything. Yeah,
Josh Lavine 4:41
that champagne bubble image is really good. That's, I've heard that from a lot of people within six, week seven, seven, week six, area, space, yeah, yes. Like soda or just something that fizzy energy, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And
Sara Pryde 4:58
it's, yeah, it's not unbearable. But it's uncomfortable, and so anytime I would bring my mind back to what I agreed to do, it would that that sort of frantic feeling kind of climbs into the chest and it gets really tight, and it's like I have to do, I have to prepare. I have to do something to take back control. And the entire point of my agreeing to do this, of wanting to do this for myself, is I do these courage practices, and I haven't done I haven't done anything where I've been required to be visible. And in probably six months, I've been working on some other areas, but a courage practice for me is just entering into something I know is going to cause me distress, and staying with myself and reminding myself it's okay to feel that but, and I'm not going to try to manage and mitigate and control and obsess. I'm actually going to try to just sit with that and let it dissolve and it's, it's very difficult. It's very difficult for me. And I learned, I learned about entering into distress intentionally, and being with myself when I was doing some treatment work for obsessive compulsive disorder. So it's kind of my riff on exposure response prevention. That's the name of the this specific therapy. ERP, I don't like the way that sounds, and I don't particularly like to think of myself as suffering from obsessive compulsive disorder. Like I don't really feel that I'm disordered. I feel that I am a human being, and I'm like, having a very human experience. And my my personality. This is the way I do do that thing. This is the way I do human humaning When I when I'm feeling stressed, when I'm feeling pressure. So I like Courage practice. You know, as a six I try to be courageous and be with myself in that.
Josh Lavine 7:27
Do you hold a sense of yourself? So let me ask this in a slightly different way, as a social blind type, do you hold a narrative of your life story in your head? Do you have a sense of like, like, for example, for me as a social three, if you ask me like, if you ask me to tell me like, if you ask me to tell my life story I have I could recall right now, just the beats of like, formative experiences that led me to be kind of this person, almost like in a movie scene style way. Yeah. Do you have anything like that?
Sara Pryde 8:03
Oh, I've never thought about that. Yes. It feel my life feels cinematic. It feels mythic and archetypal, but I I almost remove myself from it? Yeah, I think, I think even in that I'm objectifying myself, like I'm it's like I'm telling a story about someone else, almost. And this, it would be more about the feeling, tone of it, and it would be more about the the flavor of the experiences, and it would be less about details, about people and places and things, and there would be no dates. And part of that is actually an issue of early trauma and a difficulty with continuity. There has been a lack of continuity and coherence. And so I don't know that I could do that just because there are large gaps in my memory. And it would be, it would be, it wouldn't be a narrative that was linear. So I think maybe I recall, like, large moments, but it's more about like, like I said, the feeling or the flavor or the myth of the moment.
Josh Lavine 9:26
Okay, that's interesting. That's interesting. I wanted to, I want to tell you about my experience looking at your website. Okay, so your website, your website's amazing. So your massage therapist and your website has this. It has this, like, I could feel the SPS X, kind of mood in your website. It's like, there's a sensuality. Beyond just being a massage therapist, you know, like a sensuality, there's also, like. A the way I would the phrase I wrote down was, like a quote, unquote, non professional realism. It is professional, but there's a way that you're not presenting the image of, like, I'm a professional. You're like, I'm you obviously are professional, but you have a set like, there's your humaneness is coming through. You know, there's a, there's a sense of, like, it's me and it's you. We're gonna get into a space, and then we're gonna just land there, and then we're gonna see what happens. It's not like, I'm a licensed XYZ thing. You're my patients. It's a, there's something so it's, there's like a social the social category of, I am serving you in some way, I'm occupying some role in relation to you, is sort of not there, you know. And there's also, like a silkiness. There's also a little bit of, like, a six kind of goopiness, and like, laying it all out there. And you're talking about, like, cats and bad puns and good whiskey and archetypal wisdom, and it's all just kind of flowing everywhere. And actually, no, it was so great. It was like, it's like, you it's like, it's like, you jumped out of a tarot deck, you know? And just like, and are just like, you are full and like, here you are fully, like, in a curtained, furnished, you know, I don't know, like mood board, like, with a wand and a spell book and some tattoos. You know,
Sara Pryde 11:39
it's so weird to have somebody talk about me, to me,
Josh Lavine 11:43
okay, what's the hell? What's happening? What's happening?
Sara Pryde 11:49
Because I don't, I don't know. I don't like to exist, and it's just very strange. Okay, so I do really well existing, like on a website or on paper, I think I'm better in theory than in practice. So it's very strange to be witnessed at all. I tend to witness others, and I don't want people to be looking at me or witnessing me, and I like there to be a veil in front of me all the time, okay, even to the point, you know, it's hard for me to I will never put on a pair of jeans and a T shirt and flip flops and go outside and go to the store and buy toothpaste Like no one will ever seen me do that?
Josh Lavine 12:42
Okay, sorry. It's just a really okay, okay, yeah, like a thing that basically 95% of people do every day, yeah, okay, yeah,
Sara Pryde 12:51
absolutely not, yeah, absolutely not. Okay. And that is not just social anxiety. That's it's not, it's that to be me and to feel truly myself, to feel aligned, to feel in integrity with all parts of myself, I have to be mythic like I I have to, basically, I don't want to use the word brand, because that's that's not quite what I mean, but I have to dramatize, and I wear my sunglasses and my dark big shades and my fluffy coat and my turban and my earrings, and I have my playlist that I've created curated For whatever mood that I want to be in. It's playing when I leave the apartment, like everything's a mood, everything's a vibe, and that's how, that's actually how I live. And so it's weird, because I'm always creating distance, even when I go outside and I go to the store, I've already armored up in this way that I am with myself, and I am for myself, and I am by myself, and it's the Sarah show, and I'm not involving other people. And so that was very different to have you. No one's ever told me they've looked at my website or what they thought about it and it the other weird thing that happened there was it didn't occur to me. Obviously, I built it so that people could find me and I could do my work, which is my life, which is important to me, but at no point did I actually consider somebody looking at it that was really weird, like when you were talking about it. Then I had to realize that, oh, like, people are going to be looking at that, and then, I don't know, it was just really weird. Weird. This is
Josh Lavine 14:48
amazing. This is unbelievable. I well, you're, are you your social last and your heart last? Also, right? 613 Yeah, or 614 pardon me, 614 Yeah. I. Well, I just did a social heart thing at you.
Sara Pryde 15:04
Yeah, yeah. It wasn't. It wasn't. It was, I don't know, like it did feel heart, like I felt something, but it was like that a little.
Josh Lavine 15:16
Did anything feel inaccurate?
Sara Pryde 15:19
No, okay, it didn't you. You nailed it. Okay? I mean, yeah, because and I am a professional, I'm educated, I'm experienced, I'm passionate. I have a lot of conviction around what I'm offering and what I do with people, but I don't look at myself as a helper, or like I'm that I'm doing anything for someone else truly, and that that's probably self presexual too is like two To not two, yes, that I'm everything I'm doing has to be yummy to me or I'm not going to do it like, yeah, yeah. It isn't for everyone else. It truly. I've built a life that feels delicious and decadent and perfect, and it's it's me, it's me, symbolic form, and I've built that. And if other people can find value in that and want to do it with me, then I'll play at this thing with them for a while, as long as it's interesting and it's generative and we're both receiving something and then, but it is boundaried. There's no social going on. You know, I'm doing something with someone else, but it's within these parameters, and then that's it. And beyond that, that's all I'm offering. Can just understand
Josh Lavine 16:50
physically, sorry for this really boring question, but do they come? Do you have an office? Or do you do they come? There's like, a room in your house or something? Okay? No,
Sara Pryde 16:59
yeah, I do. You know, I have various services that that are available, so, different offerings for massage. Specifically, I do work out of a practice here in, okay, my temp, and so they do come to that space. And, you know, there's a there's a closed door, and we're together in that space for the the service hour or hour and a half that the massage lasts.
Josh Lavine 17:23
I asked that question just, or, sorry, just from an energetic point of view, like, are you bringing someone into your cave and it's and they get sort of, I don't know, like, wrapped up in your RN energy and then sort of deposited back out into the world. And that's how
Sara Pryde 17:40
I mean. So the space, I've been very fortunate to work in a space where the owner has allowed me to make the room my own. And it is a, it is a very large room. It's, it's an oddly shaped building, but it's, it's in the basement. It's the basement, and so it feels like a cave you have to go down, and then all the way to the back of the practice, and then this very large room. And everything feels, looks, smells, sounds exactly as I want it to curated it. And it is very important to me that, yeah, and I would not have been able to be real. And this, this is a little I'm feeling embarrassed to say this, because it, um, I don't like to feel that I'm being vain or vapid or shallow, you know, whatever. I need things to be a certain way for me to do my work. And it really does matter to me, and it it impacts what I'm what I'm offering to this other person. If, if it's not right, if the the music isn't my playlist, and it's just something we found on Spotify, or if smell is off, or the the light, the lights aren't, you know, exactly right. It's not what it's so it does matter. It's and I'm fortunate that the owner has allowed me to completely create a space that feels like, like a person is stepping into a shared energetic field, like an aura that can exist together. But I've already designed it with with the intention in mind, you know, for, for, for self connection, that person connecting to themselves, and like not being distracted and having, having all the senses considered and attended to in advance. So there's nothing jarring or disturbing to them, and it's trauma informed, like how. How everything is set up so that their nervous system can settle in. And it's important,
Josh Lavine 20:04
yeah, oh my God, there's so much to pull out of what you're saying. So first of all, let me just, I just want to make some high level comments, then we can kind of dig into some of the stuff. But so, spsx, uh, exclamation point in terms of what you're select, this, this, this profound saturation with like mood and texture and just in that plus well, and also this kind of self focused, kind of David uses that phrase curling into itself, kind of, actually, this is useful. David Gray's image for a self pressed sexual is that it's like a snake curled up, but with its head inside its own curls, looking at its own skin and fascinated by it. You know, that's spoken about that, yeah, yeah, no, I, which is an amazing image. And he's also spsx, yeah. But it's like, I'm getting that sense from you. You know? It's like this, this is my cave of voluptu, essential, whatever, just energy, you know, and also triple frustration adjacent, right? I'm hearing a lot of frustration what you say and just whatever, for listeners who don't know what that means, like, just the way I conceive of frustration is that you are holding some inner ideal of a personally precious ideal. So both four and one and or yeah, all three of the frustrations I want, seven and four Yeah, are all holding some ideal about what I want, what I want reality to be, and the gap between what reality typically shows me and gives me versus my ideal causes my frustration and so this intensity around creating this environment that's just perfect for myself,
Sara Pryde 21:47
and gritting my teeth while you were saying that, yeah, that's the feeling,
Josh Lavine 21:50
okay, yeah. And but what's so fascinating about it is that it's, it's it's wrapped up in a six package. It's at the sense of like responsibility to my clients if it's not right, and the sense of trauma informed and the duty of doing a good job, and just you know, like, you know, even on your website, you talked about like, you know you want, you said you want to be someone that your daughter is proud to come from. And this trauma informed thing, and anyway, this idea of, yeah, doing a good job, this, like doing the right thing, doing what's do you relate to the phrase I was gonna say, what's expected of me? That's kind of a six phrase. I'll throw out there anyway. But this package, spsx, triple frustration, but wrapped in a six envelope.
Sara Pryde 22:39
Yeah? Yeah. It's a conundrum. It's a paradox.
Josh Lavine 22:43
It really does, yeah,
Sara Pryde 22:45
I feel, I feel deeply conflicted. Okay, yeah, experience, I do experience, you know, wanting to do what's expected of me. That's where the, I think, the fear of six comes in, you know, not wanting to cut myself off from support and security. I'm a self press six. You know, I need that, and other people are involved. You know, I can't do everything on my own, although, obviously, as a self presexual with a lot of frustration, I want to be alone. I want to do it myself. You know, I have a lot of that for too. Like, I there's a lot of withdrawn there at the end. And just like, want to be in my own little cave doing my own thing, um, but and I need to be of service. I feel that I need to be useful. Yeah, yeah. I need to be a good steward of my gifts. I'm almost rolling my eyes like, as I'm talking, because I'm frustrated with that oftentimes, like
Josh Lavine 23:48
that you have such a such a pull to that, yeah, like, it's annoying to you how service oriented you are,
Sara Pryde 23:55
yes. And then on the flip side, when I'm being of service, and I'm thinking about things like, you know, the collective and because I'm not social, and I don't actually want to do any of it at all, but I know that's the right thing, and we are interdependent, and It's not all about me. How do you know I
I mean, I guess history, politics, you know, I, I care again, six ish, but I, I care to know about our history. And I'm, I'm situated, I I'm not hmm, and I'm want to share that. I'm an anti capitalist. I am very aware of the culture that I live in, that I was born into. I'm aware of the systems. And I can't be aware of those things and then live in a way that is counter to to what I know to be true. And so if you study the history of the United States and you, you know you, you've lived it long enough in it, you can know a thing if you pay attention. And so now that I know that, don't I have a duty to live like I know that, and live my values. And that's I feel very probably six one, there's a lot of principle, and I can't, I can't pretend that just because I want everything to be, you know, luscious and gorgeous, and I I really am deeply solitary and incredibly self indulgent. I can't pretend I'm not that, but I can't, in good conscience, what a six one thing to say. I can't ignore that. I know better, right? Try to do better, even if it's painful, even if it is disgusting, you know, to me to have to do,
Josh Lavine 26:06
yeah, yeah, that. I mean, double super ego hit six one is pretty strong there. Yeah. And I don't know if this is too much of a stress, but this, I just so the Contra stuff, like the spsx even maybe factors into that too, but
Sara Pryde 26:19
I believe it does. I absolutely, yeah, yeah. That the the conflict that I feel on on a daily basis between and I really do feel it as like factions of parts of me like and I do think of it now that I have the language of the Enneagram, it's easier for me to kind of use that, to layer it on top of parts work and internal family systems, and I'm an astrologer, so I feel like we're talking about the same thing. We're just kind of using different a different framework. But I do feel like there's two factions, and there's like this. There's a group of parts that are constellated around like that, six, one, around super ego, around compliance, around a duty of care and staying safe too within the society. So regardless of the fact that I'm social last, I'm aware that I need to be safe and do the right thing. So those two things on this, that was, Oh yeah, yeah. And then over here, like, I have, I have those self indulgent parts that want to do what I want to do, and I want to be immersed in my own reality, and I want to be constantly I'm obsessive and I'm I'm insular. I don't want to involve anyone else. I'm not interested in anyone else, and I'm interested in me. I'm interested in knowing more about me and working my my trouble, my doing my work by myself and and that's, you know, self presexual vibe, social ass, obviously. And then, just like that, fourishness of just every everything is a disappointment, and so I want, if I'm in control of it, then I I can keep things beautiful and artful, and I can create the drama that I that I want to bring to the world and live in my ideal. But as soon as I involve other people and I involve the world, it's trashed. It's completely trashed. So these two things, I'm doing a pendulum swing between these two things all the time, yeah,
Josh Lavine 28:28
yeah, or it feels even faster than pendulum, right? Like a just, yeah, metronome. Like, metronome, yeah. Metronome is good. Yeah. I mean, like that. Why did you become a massage therapist, given that. And actually, just the spirit of that, the spirit of that question is that is, I mean, you're literally, physically touching other human beings, like you could have done anything that lets you just be alone, you know? You know?
Sara Pryde 28:59
Well, yeah, and that's, that's exactly it I did. I did everything else that was just me alone and I got sick, um, okay, staying, staying completely in my own brain. Um, began to feel dangerous, like, um, like, I could be eaten alive by my own like Mecca, like the own, my own mechanisms like and the gears constantly turning and staying in there all the time, and never coming up for air and never, never coming out into the light, never having conversations with anyone else. I'm just chewing on the same things. And you can I read and I study and I listen and research. That's where I'm happy. But comfort is not necessarily health, and I was feeling unhealthy. I was a practicing. Astrologer. I only, I only provided consultations as recordings, so I wasn't having to interact with people in real time, wow, and written reports. So I was able to stay in my brain and and just stay there. And I was also running a feral cat rescue cat Haven. I lived with 10 resident cats, and then I brought in neonatal kittens and and so I was alone with animals who are cats are very self prosexual they might like, yes, yeah, to him about that as well. And I so I was completely immersed in my self, prosexual Haven, and then I was in my brain only for years and years and years, and without realizing how deeply I could become disconnected, and disconnected even from myself, because I was no longer touching the heart space. I wasn't in my body at all. I was just in, in my head, my my obsessive, compulsive ways of being, got really, really sticky. And so I, I started to realize i, i the inner work that was actually required was for me to get deeply uncomfortable and choose something that I could still enjoy, really enjoy, and I need to include all the senses, and I need to be able to have a very high degree of control. I know that about myself in order to be okay, I don't work well with others. I'm not a team player, so I still needed to be able to take care of myself and know myself, and not put myself in a situation where I was way outside of my my zone of brilliance. I'm gonna say, Yeah,
Josh Lavine 31:59
I just I just, I love this. I'm not a team player statement, just because it's so contrary to the six stereotype, you know, and it's
Sara Pryde 32:06
I had a really hard time typing as a six, right, right, because of that languaging. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Lavine 32:15
What does you've used the word security or safety a couple times I have to be said, What does it mean to
Sara Pryde 32:26
you that all of the resources I need to survive are available like are accessible To me? Really, yeah, really, just that, and because I live in a body mind system that experiences a lot of disability like I have had to accept that I need other people's help and so security now also includes being able to kind of have some reciprocity, like, where I'm I'm giving something to my my partner. I'm able to help him with things around the house, or meal planning or whatever it is. And he has, he has to who he works more hours than I do outside of the home, but together, we can build security for one another. And so that's it started to mean that in the last maybe five ish years, where I recognize that security can include at least Brian, at least my partner, but mostly it's like what I can get for myself to stay alive
Josh Lavine 33:43
so security has, has, has slightly expanded from sort of me, my resources, my comfort, my ideal, to now, including the duo, yeah,
Sara Pryde 33:58
Yeah. And even more, like because of my work as a massage therapist, but also, you know, I have other other offerings too. Now that I'm I'm more out in the world than I was, I can start to include that security or stability. Maybe stability can include one on one clients that I have a long term relationship with, like that, that those stable relationships can help me feel more secure and so maybe I recognize myself more as a six now than I did okay when I felt I felt much more attuned and aware of the grinding, churning, burning frustration that was what I felt, and I didn't have the safety with others, and now I'm starting to feel a little bit more comfortable with other people. Yeah,
Josh Lavine 34:57
what comes what comes up for me around that is. Is I thought of your banana muffin story that you shared. And actually, I'd love for you to just tell that story, because and we can tie it back to that this idea in a second. Yeah. Okay,
Sara Pryde 35:17
every week I do our grocery list and I order the groceries, and then Brian picks them up, and so I order him bananas. I order him six bananas every week, because I know that he can eat one a day until we get groceries again on the seventh sorry. Why is it funny? What Oh,
Josh Lavine 35:44
that's just so good. Oh, man, I laughed so hard when I read that. That's so funny. I'm dating a self prestige so I just Oh my god, so funny. Yeah, yeah, oh, my God, that's so funny.
Sara Pryde 35:59
Yeah, yeah. It's
Josh Lavine 36:03
just like the precision, the grittedness that I know it exactly what I can expect. You're gonna eat one banana a day. Yeah?
Sara Pryde 36:11
Yes, absolutely. So I did that. But this week, this particular week, he he wasn't eating his bananas. And,
Speaker 1 36:26
yeah, motherfucker didn't use bananas. Yeah,
Sara Pryde 36:29
you have one cup. So I didn't want I don't I'm a self prosexual. Let's like, I remember that sometimes too, because I realized later I could have asked him, but it didn't occur to me to ask him, like, that's his business. Like I'm not going to make it a thing, I'm not going to address it. That's fine. But I'm watching the bananas, and they're, you know, getting brown and speckled, and they're rotting on the counter, and I'm feeling really stressed out about it, like, every time I go into the kitchen, there they are rotting on the countertop, and I'm feeling like it's my problem. Can I
Josh Lavine 37:09
just understand real quick? How, how far into the week are we? How many bananas in are we? Oh,
Sara Pryde 37:13
well, he's, yeah, he's eaten most of them. But it's like, we're, we're like, three or four days away from when I'm gonna have to reorder the bananas, and there's still bananas on the countertop, and so I'm like,
Josh Lavine 37:25
Oh, how. Like, how many, how many extra, how many extra?
Sara Pryde 37:29
There were two extra
Josh Lavine 37:30
two. So he didn't he? So he missed two whole day. He missed two days. Okay, okay, got it,
Sara Pryde 37:37
yeah, right, right in your bin. Okay. Um, so I made this my problem, like, and now I had to decide, am I going to throw them away and be a terrible person because I'm wasting food, and or am I going to be responsible and make some thing out of them and I make muffins. So I'm like, okay, I can make banana muffins. The thing is, I didn't want to make muffins this week. I had my shit to do. I didn't want to throw them away, but I felt like he backed me into a corner, because i Those are my options, like, what else am I supposed to do? So I he took the car. We share a vehicle. He took the car. He was gone for the day. It was a Saturday. And can I just understand
Josh Lavine 38:25
real quick, real quick, you mentioned it, but just what, what's like? You couldn't just throw them away or compost them or whatever, like that was not what's what's what was so, what was so? Yeah,
Sara Pryde 38:36
throwing them away made me feel like I was, I was being wasteful and disregarding like a resource, okay, right? This is food, and we bought this food, and it is good food, and it's here and it's, you know, so, yeah, didn't eat it. I have to do something with it. Yeah. So I decided, fine, I'm gonna make the muffins. And I felt really resigned and really pissed off about it while I was making the muffins. And they have to be delicious muffins. Like, I'm not just gonna throw them together really fast. Like, I'm like, okay, these have to be excellent. And so I'm I did peanut butter cup muffins, like I did peanut butter. I added dark chocolate chunks and I put pecans in there for a crunch. I'm like, These are gorgeous muffins. And then I'm like, there's 12 months. Like, we're two people. I don't know any people. I have no friends. Like, I, what am I gonna do with the muffins? I can't eat them, and had stuff in it. I can't eat. I have various digestive disorders. Brian's not going to be able to eat 12 muffins in the amount of time that I can keep them fresh. So now I'm like shit, like I I'm in the exact same situation I was in, yeah, of course. Uh huh. I can't throw them away. Uh huh. So. Yeah, it's freezing cold. And I put on my jacket and my hat and bundled up and the wind's howling, and I walked a mile to the practice where I work the massage practice, and I I had them in a pretty basket, and I put them on the counter with a post it note, and I just said, enjoy. And then I walked back home, really pissed off about the whole situation still like, that was not my job. So Brian comes home, and it's like, later that night, and I told him that I had made muffins and I brought them to work, and he said, oh, did anybody text you? Thank you? And I was like, no. He's like, Oh, that's sad. And I'm like, why? Like, why is that sad? He's like, Oh no, that nobody, like, thanked you and said how great they were. And I was like, I did not make those muffins for anybody else. Like, I did not make them to be nice. I did not make them to be recognized. I made them because I had no choice. Like, I had to make them because I was upset, like, I was stressed out. And I think a lot of the things I do are really about that, like, there's stress, there's a sense of responsibility, there's a sense that I'm the I'm the adult, like, I need to do some the right thing here. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to do it. And it's yeah, yes, but you must. I have to do an excellent it has to be wonderful if I'm going to invest in my life force energy, and it's going to be excellent, and I'm going to be a bitch about it the whole time. Yeah, I want
Josh Lavine 41:33
to say one, one thing social blind. Then I want to come back to this, the underlying sentiment of the story. But I was interested how, when you took the muffins to your practice and you let them on the counter, it was as if, like, you weren't even, I mean, even as a six, like thinking, you weren't thinking to yourself, oh, this is, like, something that is a service to other people. It was like this the way you were participating in the social context of, like, the social meaning of giving muffins to a community, you know, having cooked them yourself, and all that stuff, like, it just didn't, it wasn't even anywhere in you, you know. So the question Brian asked you was surprising, yeah, after
Sara Pryde 42:17
the fact, I could see, because I do know people that do that. Like, I yeah, I didn't really, like, grow up under a rock, and I know there are people that do that for other people, yeah, it always seems like my motivations are slightly different than the people around me. I my partner is a 9962, everyone in my immediate surroundings are attachment types, and no one is social, last except for me that I know of, so I'm acutely aware that I'm doing it wrong like that. How I'm doing things I'm coming at things wrong, wrong or like from a different angle. Sometimes I think, um, because I am an attachment type, but I'm not seeing the social part the way I think other people are are seeing it. I'm seeing that I'm uncomfortable and my world isn't right, and now something's infringed upon, or my like, how I want to feel about myself and my world, and now I need to fix it, uh huh, and other people are involved, but it's, it's not usually about them, but I do hope they benefit. Absolutely. I love for people to benefit, but I that's not the point.
Josh Lavine 43:39
Yeah, why wasn't it available to you? Or was it available to you to have the bananas be Brian's problem?
Sara Pryde 43:53
It's it. It did not occur to me, right? Did not occur to me at any point, literally, until you just asked me that, that it that he would have, like, what would he have done? He would have thrown him away, and he wouldn't care away about, right? You just would have thrown him away. Yeah, yeah. Then
Josh Lavine 44:15
you know, but then you would be complicit in
Sara Pryde 44:18
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. As the one who makes the grocery list and does the, you know, decides how much of something we buy, like, that's that was my, my job. Yeah.
Josh Lavine 44:33
So first of all, I'm obsessed with the story. It's such a good story. I do you have I have such a let's see, I'll ask this question. This is a question that came to me. Do you feel having experienced this? First of all, how recently was it like, the last year?
Sara Pryde 44:55
No, yeah, like two or three months ago? Yeah. Oh. Like, very fresh. This. Fresh, very recent. Yeah, yeah, very recent.
Josh Lavine 45:04
Does it feel available to you to like, if this situation happened again, if you bought six bananas and Brian didn't eat a couple, what would happen?
Sara Pryde 45:18
Um, well, Josh, I won't buy six bananas anymore, does that? So I've already adjusted. I wouldn't put us in that situation again.
Josh Lavine 45:30
Yeah, what if he needs what if he eats one a day and he needs two more? What happens? Well,
Sara Pryde 45:35
so yeah, now, now I've recognized that there needs to be, like, a conversation, like, okay, so how into bananas are we feeling? Because, yeah, I still would have an issue with him putting them in the trash. But I do recognize that I don't necessarily want to have to constantly deal with like, any food that's rotting and make that my issue. It's just so
Josh Lavine 46:03
funny, because it's good. So first of all, I want to just mention about attachment. It's like this, this, this merging, or fusion, of, like, my world, your world. And that's like, once the Dan has come home, they're Brian's bananas, you know? But when he doesn't eat them, all of a sudden, they're yours to deal with. And so that's attachment, you know, that's some attachment, yeah, yeah. But this so there's, like, that confusion of boundaries thing there, but there's also, let's see, the sixth thing, of needing to have the plan set in advance. And if you it's like, we agree upon there's like, a precedent, you're gonna eat six bananas. And if you don't fulfill this expectation, if you change, if you wake up one day and you're like, I don't feel bananas today. I want to eat an apple or something. It's a departure from the plan, you know, and that's, that's just like, so, so, so it's so, so, so funny, because then you have to, you're like, Okay, well, now we have to have a conversation about in advance of the next week. Well, what are you gonna eat this week, you know, so that you know in advance. And then, as I guess, I guess what I'm wondering about, like, also, I'm sort of familiar with this dance dating a self process, social sex, but, yeah, but like the what's, what is there? Is there room in your way of operating for improvisational decisions about food?
Sara Pryde 47:39
Yes. So two. It was about two, two ish months ago that this happened, and we entered into a very rough point in our lives right now where financially, things are not, you know, great, and my health took a turn. And so the stress and the self protective mechanism was really, really grindy at that time of like we need to make use of and we need to be very mindful of our resources. And while that's still true after that experience, after seeing what that did to my entire day, um, I don't I could very clearly see what I did there, like I can see from every single step, every single thing I chose, I chose I chose. Like I can see my responsibility and I can laugh at it. It's absurd. What I did, like that whole day, what I did was ridiculous. And honestly, the week leading up, like, how I just kept looking at the bananas, like shooting daggers into the bananas, like, you know, I'm so upset about it. So it's it, it helps me to see myself in action that way. And now that I have I'm aware, like, Yes, I can ask him, you think you want this many bananas? And I'm not gonna, I'm not going to make it bigger than that. It's really that simple. Like, you think you want them, yeah, okay, so you you get them, and then if he doesn't eat them, now, it probably would have to be a thing where I leave him and let him, let like, let him do what he's gonna do. Will it bother me? Yes, it will bother Sure, yeah, yeah, but I'm not gonna do that again. Like, I've done that that didn't work. Yeah, yeah. But if you're asking me, if I'm not going to feel away about it, no, I'm going to feel something about oh, no, I
Josh Lavine 49:30
definitely hear you. Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you. I hear you. I'm just I think what's fascinating to me is how, how, as a self pressed sexual type you are still aware of and holding these, what I guess, before this conversation, was holding to be more social values, you know, like, at least the way I'm holding is like waste on behalf of the collective or the planet Earth, or, you know, these kinds of things, right? Do. Hold it differently, yes,
Sara Pryde 50:01
so that that's an afterthought. It's there, okay, because I'm aware. But the why I can't waste it is because it means something. It's in, first of all, it's in my space. This is my space, and it's exactly as as it's meant to be. It's how I Oh, yeah, I see that's, you know, it's, that's a good distinction, yeah, hooking up my space, I see now it's my problem, so that's, that's where it's coming from. And then, of course, the the bit where it means something about me to throw away food because I am. My principle does dictate that, like in order for us to have the resources we need, and now I'm including my partner in that, whereas before, it would have been for me to have what I need, but in order for us to have what we need, we need to be aware of what we're spending and what we're using, and, You know, be good stewards of what we have, and so that's where the not wasting is coming in. Yeah, it's not coming from a social place. Isn't that
Josh Lavine 51:10
amazing at all? It's interesting how the same sense of duty can come from totally different places, internal, yes, yeah. And
Sara Pryde 51:16
I do think that being a six with a one fix makes me seem more socially aware and even socially interested than I am. Oh,
Josh Lavine 51:30
yeah, no, that's great point. That's totally a great point. Yeah, yeah, I see that.
Sara Pryde 51:35
Yeah, I'm not. But people, people see that, and they think I'm doing what they're doing. I'm not. It's at all. It's just that I can pass. I can pass for a socially aware, socially available person, like I'm like you, I'm not, but I can pass. And I think it people, they recognize that in me, because, similarly, yeah, yeah.
Josh Lavine 52:08
So I have a question for you. So I the way I think about six, it's attachment in the mental sensor. And so it's like absorbing unconsciously, almost against my will, the sets of like, the values and expectations of the surrounding culture milieu, and the way I see it from a social perspective, like the social context, you know, like, like, for example, well, just like growing up anywhere, there are implicit expectations and rules for appropriate behavior in a given environment, or what we value around here, whether it's we value frugality, or we value a certain kind of morality, or we value being kind to each other and six as an attachment type of the mental center is picking up on what is kind of right and wrong within the environment and internalizing those expectations. And then that's the superego. It's like, I want to be involved. I want to be let's see, compliant, conscientious according to these rules. But at the same time, because I'm absorbing other people's maps of reality and what the expectations are, the maps, I try to stitch them all together into a coherent one, but they don't actually fit together because people contradict each other, and so I'm trying to be loyal to contradictory expectations, and that creates the inner split. And so that's how I That's how I see it, yes, but it's hard, it's, I guess it's hard for me to even conceive of how that would happen without a social instinct for higher up in your stacking
Sara Pryde 53:40
See, I think the two get muddied, and I do, because I live, I live in a way that is not, believe me, is not social, and I'm not considering it at all. It doesn't I'm avoiding it, yeah, so it that my six is still alive and well, it's just, you know, I still have the sense that there are expectations, there's a sense of appropriateness that I'm very aware of, and I'm aware of when I have fallen short. I'm a quick study. I'm I have a one gut like I I will figure it out, and I will I will correct. I will self correct. I will adjust, and figure what out necessary, figure out where I've gone wrong, like if I've if I know something is appropriate now, because I did the wrong thing socially, and I didn't apply, you know, the values that they that that were coming in and I missed. I missed something because of the lack of social even though my six was tracking, I missed do the social dance i i learned quickly what doesn't work, because I always want things to work. I want things to be efficient. I. Want to be effective, and I also don't want to have people coming for me, you know? I don't want to be in trouble.
Josh Lavine 55:09
Yeah, right, yes. I was just going to use that phrase being in trouble, yeah? So
Sara Pryde 55:13
all I will learn very quickly, and then I can pass the next time I can, I can make a go of it. I can mimic people, and I know how to do that. It's exhausting, but I can absolutely do that, and that's what I'm doing, to do social Yeah, is dangerous, yeah,
Josh Lavine 55:33
yeah. It's like, which is why I don't like to leave my apartment, you know, if I don't have to, yes, because I imagine it's exhausting to exhausting, yeah, and it's, and it's mental, right? It's like, it's, yes, it's, it's like, it's like, logging, almost like the the SOP, you know that word that like, yeah, absolutely is.
Sara Pryde 55:53
That's exactly what it's like. That's good, that's really good. Yeah, it's a lot, takes a lot of of energy,
Josh Lavine 56:01
yeah? Like, the social recipe to not get in trouble and you have, like, a recipe book or something, yeah,
Sara Pryde 56:07
appropriateness, yes, yeah, yeah. And boy, I have messed up, yeah, um, being social last, even with that six, um, it doesn't save me. The six does not save me like because I'm not doing I'm not valuing what other people are valuing. There I like to be. I'm one of those people that go to a bar with a book, and I sit in a dark corner and I order what I want. When I walk in and I don't want them to come back, and I will tell the waiter or waitress that I don't need them to come back, like, I will let them know what I want, yeah, like, and it's like, Don't interrupt, like, I am using this space because the ambience is right. And it's like, you have set this up in such a way that I approve, like I can go in and I can say, the lighting is right, this, the music's good, okay, I can be here around others. Don't approach me, you know, I want to be here and so I can enjoy being near other people, but I don't necessarily want involvement, and I don't like to be interrupted when I am, like, immersing myself in an environment, in a vibe, you know?
Josh Lavine 57:28
Yeah, this gets to something I wanted to bring up, like a topic that you kind of explored in some of the stuff you wrote in advance, was how almost accidentally available you project that you are because you're six, you know, you've got that kind of, you know, friendly buddy energy, you know, but, yeah, but that's really just like this, this facade.
Sara Pryde 58:00
I've said this to Brian. I'm like, do I have like, care and concern on my forehead? Like, what the like? Why do people approach me? And it's because I'm a six. I'm a six with a seven wing. That's right, that's right. Yeah, there's a levity. And again, I have a lot of frustration in my type, and I have a ghostly, you know, you picked up on that in the website. That is my energy. It is, it is, there's something kind of haunting about me, even when I'm out. But there's that friendliness. It's an open it's an open quality. And it's, it has a brightness, like a yes, bright, yeah, you know. And the second is like, lifting me a bit and my bright
Josh Lavine 58:47
funeral, yeah, it's like, I
Sara Pryde 58:50
love that. Yes, yeah. And so people will inevitably approach me to and I do smile. You know, I'm not again, I know it's appropriate, like I'm not scowling, and, you know, being an asshole openly, that's that's inside, but like outside, if I'm going out, and I even with all my regalia, and like everything, my costuming and my earbuds. When I approach the counter at the, you know, the coffee shop, I take my earbuds out, and I say, Good morning, like I know how to do it. And then people see me as, oh, she's warm and open. And people recognize me from my work, like, if I've worked with people, and they know me from whatever. And so they'll come and chat with me for like, 30 minutes, and now I'm a hostage, and so that's I tend to I'm an indoor cat.
Josh Lavine 59:50
That's such a good phrase. Yeah? You also, you use this phrase of, I'm easy to become friends with, but I'm hard to be friends with. Yeah? Yes, yeah, which I loved. I was so just succinct,
Sara Pryde 1:00:05
yeah, because I will, I will play along in order to make sure that I'm not doing the wrong thing and I don't get into trouble, and I don't cut myself off from future support. You know, I need to work that can't be a jerk. And I need, Oh, I see, yeah, no, and I do. The thing is, I care so much. This really sounds like I don't. I deeply care about people, but not in a personal, one on one, let's be friends, relationship kind of way it is. You're a human being, and you deserve dignity, and I want you to have all of your needs met, and I want you to be well and whole and free. And I really care about that, and I live in such a way that I'm always thinking about that for me, and then by extension, it's like, obviously, I want that for everybody around me, but I don't necessarily want to be deeply involved in the day to day goings on of other people's lives. It doesn't, it doesn't interest me. It doesn't have anything. There's no juice in that for me. There's no charge. There's no nothing. For me.
Josh Lavine 1:01:23
This is a very broad question, but I wanted to ping off this answer, what were you like as a kid? Like was were you a loner? Did you were you still, I mean, even as a kid, were you as wrapped up and saturated in your own vibe and mood and flavor?
Sara Pryde 1:01:40
Okay, I'm glad you went there, because I was struggling for a minute. But again, part of this is a memory issue. I have seizures, my long term memories shot like I have some issues around memory. But when you said that, I could picture I took piano lessons, and I was a singer, and I would rehearse the same songs over and over and over, and if I didn't get it right, I would do it again, and I would start as soon as I messed up, start again. And I would just stay in these like moods of fussing over the rightness and the way things felt. And I did that with music, with art, with things. I wrote. I was solitary. I read a lot. I wrote stories. I would go sit in the bunny cages behind our house, and I would, I would just be with the rabbits, and I would ideate and like, come up with, like, my next story idea. I would every once in a while have a friend, like at school, it was always a kid who was a social outcast, like there I would have this one friend, and in some way, they wouldn't be well liked or accepted for a reason, and we would be friends for a Time, and typically, it was me who dropped the ball, and that was just kind of the way my life went, you know, well into high school, like I'd have one friend and I would just be kind of, I guess, I wouldn't reciprocate, or I would forget to check in, or or whatever it was, and I, I can easily get into a relationship with someone, you know, who I was interested in for for this, that's that sexual instinct, not for the social like the social doesn't interest me, so I wasn't doing it for that. And you're
Josh Lavine 1:03:38
not seeking security for the social instinct also, which is like, if you compare, this is, I think this is so interesting, how six experiences this word. I think this word security is really complicated, and it's even maybe overused and but, but the Yeah, where six is planting its external anchors of support. You know, in as a social six, you might be seeking friendships as a way to anchor yourself, you know, but, and I'm avoiding them, yeah,
Sara Pryde 1:04:07
yeah, yeah. And, in fact, I used, this is so interesting. I actually used the sexual playground, you know, my my sexual second, yeah, for purposes of self pres to secure resources like I
Josh Lavine 1:04:27
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Sara Pryde 1:04:28
um, attraction as a hook and me like generating this mood that one, there's some forishness coming through here. I can already feel it. But like, if I'm I only want attention from like the the choicest people, people with very high standards that can recognize me as as like them, and I don't want everyone else. So it's easy for me to be you. Kind of putting on a show in my way, and showcasing my talents and doing my thing. And then as soon as I hook one person, I'm done like I'm not trying to cast a wide net. I got the one, and now the resources, which sometimes I was using that person for help with social You know, oftentimes that person, the security I was getting, was actually like help belonging, not because I wanted the belonging piece, but because I know that in order to secure resources, in order to get a better job, in order to this was, this was unconscious. I'm not saying that I was like plotting it out ahead of time in a box of paper, but I met, I mean that over the course of my life, I can see this pattern of I would, I would find a partner who, after that initial hook and that juiciness and like our sexual charge, kind of grew boring. I could stay if that person was helping me with these other things. And one of those things was the social piece. Like they had a good they had parents who cared for them, and therefore I could, I could be part of that. And then I was better set up to not have a I had a good reputation now through these people. You know, I wasn't just on purpose, but I essentially was using that sexual hook, hooking people in with that, that instinct to get other, other needs met, to keep secure and stable and safe. Yeah, and
Josh Lavine 1:06:38
that makes sense. Are you willing to mention just some of the, the the trauma history that you experienced? You don't have to go into detail or but just just to give context about, you know, you mentioned, I brought it up because you're talking about, let's see, at least while I was reading between the lines, forgive. I might be wrong, but you're like, seeking other people's for kind of self press support. I'm wondering what was going on in the background in terms of, were you being supported in a self pressed way or
Sara Pryde 1:07:06
not really? Okay, got it? Um, yeah, I My parents divorced when I was really young, and I had a younger sister two years younger, so I was the eldest. And you mentioned earlier the split, like knowing the values and you know your conditioning and your culture, I had an interesting upbringing, where Portuguese Catholic, over here on one side, and then over here, French Canadian evangelical Assemblies of God, I would do one week, one week, like back and forth, and then sometimes, like later in life, it was every two weeks or weekends. But this split of having to align myself and be acceptable within that culture. Didn't. I couldn't mesh. I had to actually split. So that was early, that to me, that was an early trauma that maybe you wouldn't. You'd label it that way, but it created, it created an unsafety in myself, because I didn't know who to be, and I didn't know I knew what was expected over here and what was expected over there. Neither felt right with me, but I felt very much not okay, and really associated from my experience, because I was having to pretend, play, pretend, yeah. And then, in order to seek some safety, there was a teacher who expressed, you know, care for me and interest in me. I was only I was 11 when I met this teacher, so I wasn't aware at the time that there was like a sexual kind of charge to this. But essentially I was for 1112, 1314, there's about four years of my life I was sexually molested by this teacher, and the psychological piece of that traumatization was so severe, so much more severe, even than than the sexual piece, because I put so much trust and faith in that being my one secure relationship like that talk to and yeah, I invested what Maybe might have gone to my parents if those households felt more stable and more safe and more Yeah, yeah, more aligned with me, and I felt like I could be true. I might have been in in a safer situation, but I wasn't, and so I relied on him, utterly and totally. And it was kind of a brainwave. Washing situation. And so that was, that was kind of the background of then, kind of after coming out of something like that at 14, we had a huge legal battle on our hands where it was found out that that there were, there were almost double the amount of girls that he had done that to in the course of his career as a teacher, and so many others came forward. And it was a very small town, so everyone knew who we were, that were pressing charges, and it kind of made us a social spectacle, and that would have been horrible for any young person, but as a social last person with no other safety, I was just completely unmoored. And after that, really did not want to have any relationships ever, yeah, yeah, yeah. It kind of had me doubling down on that, on that kind of just stay self contained. And that's amazing,
Josh Lavine 1:11:10
yeah, because it's like, I could, I could see, like, for example, a social six might be like, Okay, well, where do I belong? Who can I actually rely on and seeking some, like, a, maybe a group of of of fellow women who have been similarly treated or something like that. No,
Sara Pryde 1:11:26
and I doubled down and it to me. It was proof to me. It was like proof of what I already knew somewhere inside of myself, that there was no one, that there was no one at nowhere for me, and there was nothing for me outside of me and what I like myself and my space and staying contained. Wow.
Josh Lavine 1:11:51
Well, okay, that's a remarkable like exclamation point story and event. And do you have a sense of what's what's been the enduring impact on you of that? Or how have you lived with that and then worked with it or transmuted it? Yeah,
Sara Pryde 1:12:09
I think I'm, I'm working with it always. I don't think that that is something, and this is true, what I believe of healing in general, like we're always restoring ourselves to wholeness. But I don't think you arrive there. I think it's a dynamic, you know, state that you're you're like, entering in all the time, and then you're kind of slipping back out of it and entering into it. And so I'm sort of ebbing and flowing all the time into, like, fragmentation, and then, oh, I feel like I'm all whole, and I'm all here, and I'm available to myself, and I'm not in a self protective state, and so I can engage now and like, nope, now I'm not, you know, and I'm constantly doing that, coming in and out of that, but it has been my work, and it's had to be for me to stay alive. I mean, it sounds really dramatic, and I can already sense, like the my type in that statement, but, but it does feel true to me that I had this sense very young, and there was trauma long before that, but that was, like a big that was a big one, you know, that took many, many years of my life, and there was a sense very young, that, like, oh, like, really bad things are going to happen, and I'm going to have to survive, like, on my I'm going to have to figure this out. And that's sort of the like a lesson, I guess, or a theme, a repeating theme. And I knew my work was going to have to be how to do that, how to keep staying, how to keep going, even though it's hard and it hurts and there's no promise that anything good is going to come from it. Can you do it anyway? Like, can you do it anyway? Um, and can that be worthy work? Like, can that be what your life is it? Can that still be worth living Yeah, and I guess like answering yes and then trying to find a way forward that felt honoring of all the parts of me and and honoring of the people that I was allowing in, like yeah, that
Josh Lavine 1:14:21
I'm wondering about as a six, this idea of I can't rely on anyone. I have to do I have to figure this out on my own. I can't really think of a type for whom that would be more terrifying than type six, at least in the way that I conceive of six, and I'm wondering what you what you reached for, in terms of, like, how did you, how did you make yourself self reliant? And you might end up contradicting a stereotype I have in my head of six, but I'm wondering if you, like, did you reach for? Uh, for example, astrology or some other kind of system of meaning, making, you know, systems, yeah, um, frameworks to anchor to in your solitude that helped you have a sense of sanity in
Sara Pryde 1:15:14
sense, making, yeah, yes and that, that I do believe that's probably why I stayed alive. I think my very first, like, suicidal ideation was, like, at seven. I had, like, a letter that I wrote when I was seven years old that I was going to kill myself. So, like, I have always struggled to because there were no people I wasn't aware of, and it didn't occur to me to go to people. And then people proved very unsafe. So then that was fun, like, right? And so I'm kind of smiling because I I have this memory of being about that age, like, 7888, maybe, because we lived in this house, I would pray at night. And because I grew up both Catholic and Assemblies of God and all these, I would mix all these prayers, and I did this in ritual fashion. It had to be exactly the same order every night and and I would immerse myself in these prayers, and I had to have the true compassion for the people I was blessing in my family, very dutiful like bless mom and dad and and heal this person and whatever, and and then Catholic prayers, and I would mix it all up. And at the very end, if I reached the end, it perfectly, I would say amen, and I would wink at Jesus. And the reason I did this was because there was two there were two things happening. One, I didn't know if I believed in God or Jesus at all, and so it was kind of like I'm in the joke, like I was being sort of cheeky. But there, there was another part of me, and this part feels very six ish, that what if there is, like I need God to pay attention, like I need to be memorable. I need to develop a bond, a bond. And is, this is making me laugh, because that feels like, almost like infusing, infusing the sexual instinct, like I'm trying,
Josh Lavine 1:17:28
yeah, it kind of is, yeah, little wink, hey, up there, you know,
Sara Pryde 1:17:36
yeah, it would say something really inappropriate, yeah. Um, okay, um, so you're allowed to go there trying to, yeah, I wasn't trying to put God, but also probably I was so I, like, there's a sense that, yeah, like, I have a special relationship with you, right? But also you're probably bullshit, like, so I was always in and out. And I've been in and out of astrology and in and in and out of ifs in and out of the Enneagram, like where I will rabbit hole into something and my mind. I I approach it from all angles. I i make a home there for a while, and I then pull out, um, zoom way out on it, and kind of become, like the doubting mystic, or like this, yeah, like, really, really skeptical. It's like, cynical. It's
Josh Lavine 1:18:31
like, flirtatious, ambivalent, yes, yes, servience, a little bit too. It's like, it's all, it's all of the above. It's like, it's like, oh, this, you know whether it's
Sara Pryde 1:18:41
relationship with these systems, yeah, yes, like, yes.
Josh Lavine 1:18:45
There it is. It's like a sort of, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sara Pryde 1:18:50
Okay, cool. And that that kept me, that, that kept me, I guess, going, and I could then feel like I had some sense of belonging to something larger than myself, and something that could maybe protect me or give me a sense of stability. And then as soon as I got into it, it's like, no, this is garbage. Yes, that's at all the way, correct, and yeah,
Josh Lavine 1:19:15
but it's funny. It's similar to how you bring in this. I don't know if this is too much of a stretch, but ideologically, it's like you're bringing in something into your space in the same way that you bring in music or, you know, a mood or something. It's like it's this, it's this. You open the portal into your inner universe, you let it in, and then you kind of hang out and marinate with it and event. And when it's done, you sort of eject it, and then you're Yeah,
Sara Pryde 1:19:41
huh, yeah, absolutely. Okay,
Josh Lavine 1:19:46
I have one more question for you. Um, it's, and it's, you've been kind of doing it a little bit in this but I've actually experienced, well, okay, here's the question. You talk about the zigzagging, sick style of speaking, and. And kind of I'll just read you what you wrote. You said. I'm deeply self conscious about how I speak. I tend to interrupt myself to edit and revise as I'm talking very 6.7 it's made worse by this very real experience of parts that are not like the me who is sharing now, as in parts of self that are objecting to what I'm saying. They're not in agreement, or they are, but they have something to add, or a better way to say it, or slightly different vantage point or colored lens they're viewing the subject through, I fear saying something that is not totally complete and correct either. That was such a good encapsulation of the inner experience of that, like zigzaggy way that six is talk sometimes. So I wonder I would
Sara Pryde 1:20:40
be really interested to hear other six wing sevens if they experience this to the degree that I do. Okay. I do think there are two things going on here. So one is, it is a six wing seven ish thing to do, right? Like, yeah, there's so much me in, and my perspective is getting broad, and then I'm narrowing and I'm getting broad again. And so like
Josh Lavine 1:20:58
reacting to yourself is to myself, like, like, the sentence comes out, or a half of the sentence, and you're like, but wait, actually, it's this and, and you're certain,
Sara Pryde 1:21:07
yeah, and I'm so quick this Yes, double head. I mean, I'm a I'm ahead of myself, right? And I know where I want to go, and I'm not factoring in the social either. So like, that's a piece that I think I wonder if that shifts this at all, because I'm in my own world, and I'm so immersed in my what I'm feeling, thinking to create, and I am, then I'm suddenly aware that I am in conversation with you, and that you don't know me, and you don't have all of that, and there's no context, and then I need to give you context. And so I am, I am interrupting myself constantly, and it feels embarrassing to me. I don't typically put myself, myself in situations like this, where I have to speak without a script. Okay? Today I don't have my notes, right? Yeah, so because and so it was that was another level of courage that this has taken to not even have anything that can put me back on track and remind me what I already wrote down to say to you, I'm just winging it. So that's that's on the one hand. The other piece of this is, I do have an experience that I mentioned there of parts of self that are not the one that's currently talking to you, and that is, I, I am going to share it. That is actual fragmentation that occurred very young. It's tertiary structural dissociation. Is what it's called, is also known as dissociative identity disorder. Again, that word disorder, yeah, to me, it just felt really elegant, really sophisticated, way that my brain protected me and kept me alive as a child. That's how I look at it, but, but it means that I'm coming to you and I'm talking to you about this topic. So the part of me that has researched this topic and is interested in the Enneagram, and has a lot of background in things that are connected to the Enneagram, like, well, any of any of it, astrology, you know, a lot of them kind of overlap. You can talk about them together. That person showed up today. The issue is when I get going and then you ask me a question about my childhood, a part of me that holds those memories from childhood, granted, they're a little broken, they're a little a little foggy sometimes, yeah, but that part now is activated and needs to, needs to get that information to the part that is speaking to you. And so sometimes, what happens? Because I have, very fortunately, I have about seven years of really intensive trauma therapy that I've been able to access so EMDR and internal family systems. Now, what happens is they kind of share headspace, whereas before, I wouldn't be able to answer the question if you asked me that, okay,
Josh Lavine 1:24:16
yeah, you've done that work to integrate them, right?
Sara Pryde 1:24:19
So I'm integrated, yeah, cool. What that's meant is that I'm a mess when I talk to people, I that's No. I mean, seriously, I'm like, if somebody Yeah, no, I guess Yeah, I was going to smell like a total asshole. I don't know if I would have done this. I mean, I felt a lot more articulate and a lot more together. When I was completely split off for myself and had no memories, like it was a lot easier for me to just have a conversation. And now there's like six other perspectives I have, like, this coming in and this coming in, and so there's a level of CO consciousness that's happening where I'm sharing, I'm like, file sharing. Of between, yeah, lots of me that holds somatic memory and holds, like, the actual details of a scene and and it's all I need to get it out through my mouth, yeah, in a coherent way, yeah. So I'm very, I am very self conscious about it, and I don't usually put myself in these situations, but I felt like this was a really important part of my healing. So I did it
Josh Lavine 1:25:25
well. My experience of you is that you're very articulate, just to be I mean, honest, yeah, I mean, and you're writing your first of all, your writing, your writing is amazing. Your writing is you're such a good writer. Oh, my God,
Sara Pryde 1:25:37
thank you. I really appreciate that. I really appreciate that. It means a lot, and that's I feel a lot more comfortable that way.
Josh Lavine 1:25:44
Okay, then right? I guess we can actually craft it, yeah, right.
Sara Pryde 1:25:49
Craft it ahead of time, and I can get buy in and make those adjustments behind the scenes so that now when I present it to you, it is true and correct. Back to Oh yeah, there you go. How I wrote that, that correct piece. I'm very sensitive about things not being true and correct, because the wrong part of me right now, like, showed up, you know, and told you something, and then later other parts are like, Oh, you misrepresented us. Like, this isn't actually remember this and remember that, and that's that was true, but partial that wasn't correct. You were false. And then I feel like I'm out of integrity. It's really agonizing. It's agonizing experience for my type as a, you know, six, one like, so agonizing. Myself. That situation, yeah, because I don't trust the social and I don't, I feel inept in the social and I, I want to avoid that even more. Yeah, do it in a computer screen or, yeah?
Josh Lavine 1:26:59
Well, I think let's, let's start coming to a close. I just want to thank you for doing this and for doing it without your notes. It's been cool. Yeah, this. How do you what's this? What's this been like for you to do that?
Sara Pryde 1:27:16
Oh, it felt like when my and
Josh Lavine 1:27:18
actually just real quick before you answer just, just so everyone knows you had notes, but just because of the sound design situation, I asked you to put them away. And so, yeah, so literally, you didn't know that you were not gonna have notes until moments before this. So that's
Sara Pryde 1:27:35
and now I'm gonna have to out myself, Josh, because I my whole like, I'm not gonna prepare all day. Yesterday, I was going through my notes, and I was telling myself, you can't memorize them, but you can reread them and, like, remember what matters to you. Don't memorize them, just reread them. And so I was looking over them, at least I did that, but I was kind of preparing.
Josh Lavine 1:27:59
Wow, shoot, I lost where we were going. I'm sorry. I just was at I was asking you, what's, what's the what's this been like for you to do this and improvisationally without your notes? Yeah,
Sara Pryde 1:28:09
it reminded me at the beginning of this, right after I set them down and realized, Oh God, I don't have a safety and I'm going to sound the way I don't want to sound, and I might leave something out, and I might misrepresent or misunderstand a question. It felt like when my my stepdad, when I was really small, he threw me in the water, and I didn't know how to swim. And he said, that's how you learn how to swim, is you just have to be in the water. And I was screaming, I was crying, and he threw me in, and of course, I sunk, um, was fleeing. And so it felt like that level of that level of fear, I felt that in my stomach when I I was putting the notes away and we were getting ready and you said, Okay, I'm gonna hit record. That's the feeling of like, like, like, I need to take a really deep breath because we're about to go in. And I, there's no, I don't know what's gonna happen. Like, I might sink and that happened, but I, I recognized when you were doing the meditation, when we started the meditation, before we went into the questions, that I was like, I was starting to float. Like, it's that sense of like, Oh, if I stop flailing and I stop that frantic, like, trying to get air in, trying to solve this. I'll just come up to the surface. And so during that meditation, we were breathing, and I was kind of, at first fiddling. I was like, fiddling with the curtains. I was opening my eyes. I'm like, No, this isn't right, still. And I was realizing that's what I was trying to prevent. Was that feeling of like, I'm drowning. I'm drowning. I don't have a life raft, and I might think, and I might not be able to. Do this, and then I just, I floated to the surface with that meditation. Then I felt better. And you've called attention to it a few times, and by asking me a question that I I wasn't totally ready for, and parts were yelling at me and but I rallied, and it's okay, and we did it. Yeah.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
