Chanti 0:00
I think it's like my purpose, or something in life to leave, like an imprint on people or the place that I go. So I like change it a little bit in a way, maybe it's like little seeds that I plant, or like little pixie dust that I spread around, and then it just like it blooms a little bit and, and I just love that, you know, because it can, like, impact people's life or situations or just change moods. And, yeah, I like that.
Josh Lavine 0:35
Welcome to another episode of what it's like to be you. I'm Josh Lavine, your host, and today my guest is the enchanting Shanti franceski, who is a sexual self, Pres, 76794,
I love these conversations where I get to speak to someone who is so different for me, Typologically, I am social. First, Shanti is social. Blind. I'm also sexual. Last, Shanti is social. First. I'm also a triple attachment type, and Shanti is a seven, which is a hexad type and low super ego, etc. And so this conversation was fascinating to me on many levels. There are a couple of great stories that Shanti shares about her experience of being a social, blind seven in a world that is mostly dominated by attachment types and that carries certain sets of social assumptions that she has had a hard time kind of wrapping her head around, or that she thinks are stupid. We also get into how important Shanti esthetic saturation of her life is, and how important her it is at a heart level that she be appreciated and valued for her esthetic contributions to her environment. She has a way of, kind of magically enhancing things where she goes and sprinkling her fairy dust around, and we get into the wounding around that when it's not appreciated, which I thought was very touching and also very interesting. So I really appreciate Shanti for being willing to go to these places with me and unpack some of the stuff in real time. I also want to put a plug in up front for Shanti new project, which is her ASMR channel on YouTube where she guides meditations and does ASMR kinds of things. And it's a really, it's a place where she really is in her elements creatively and doing her magical fairy things, spreading her fairy dust around. Check it out. The link is in the show notes. One final important piece of information to say about Shanti is that she recently came out of a 17 year long relationship, and she recently has a new love interest who lives literally across the world. Shanti lives in Belgium. Her new partner lives in Australia. They met on the internet, and the way that they met has also a particular sexual seven flavor, where, in her words, she says, I just took a leap of faith and chased my dreams without listening to all the people telling me that it's not safe to hop on a plane to meet a stranger you met on the internet. So that's pretty important to know, because while we don't really unpack her relationship history and her new relationship in the interview, the two are referenced somewhat frequently, and it provides a huge part of the context of shanti, current psychological space. So without further ado, I'm very excited for you to meet and learn from my friend Shanti, in all of my interactions with you so far, we had I reached out to you a few months ago about doing an interview and and we chatted for a little bit, and then we've texted a little bit over FaceTime and or face Facebook and stuff like that. Facebook, my experience of you is that there's like this, yeah, fairy dust quality. Or it's kind of like, there's this. There's a way that, even in our text communication, you sort of like, you pop in with, like, a little magical thing, and then you're and then you fly away, you know? And I love it, yeah, and I'm, there's this playful thing, like, I might even put just, like, some screenshots of, like, the kind of texts that you send, because there's, like, because there's not, how do I say it? Like, there's, and I don't mean this in a bad way. It's like, often they're not, like, you're not spelling words in the correct way, like, yes, like, instead of writing Yes, you write why I z's, yeah, these kinds of things. Also, you change the default emoji. Facebook has like, a default thumbs up emoji. You changed it to a cake, a slice of cake. So there are these things that you do, you know, and yeah. And there's also this way, yeah. So there's a way that you're kind of like, magically enhancing the space between us.
Chanti 4:40
Yes, I love that. That's like, my favorite thing to do, yeah, and I try to do this, like, everywhere I go a little bit, yeah, yeah, I think so. And I'll always I also just look for that in the mundane board. World. So, yeah, like between people, but also in everything and all the boring things. I can get something, you know, I can find something that is magical, basically, yeah,
Josh Lavine 5:13
why is it important that things are magical?
Chanti 5:22
Because I think it's like a little bit of an escape maybe, yeah, I don't know it's, it just feels like to go back to the thing before here. I just feel like the world can be not always a nice place. And I think it's like my purpose or something in life to try to, I don't know. I don't know, like, leave, like, an imprint on people or the place that I go. So I like change it a little bit in a way, so it's like, I don't know, it's like little, maybe it's like little seeds that I plant, or like little pixie dust that I spread around, and then, yeah, it just, like, it blooms a little bit and, and I just love that, you know, because it can, like, impact people's life or situations or just change moods. And, yeah, I like that. Yeah, think that, yeah, yeah. And, and, why is it necessary? It is not really necessary, but I think it's good to, like, make the world a better place. I don't know if it's better, but yeah, well,
Josh Lavine 6:49
let me say it a slightly different way, like your your fashion esthetic and the way you put yourself together. And even just like, I'm just looking at the background of our video here, like the things, the objects that are in your environment. You're drinking out of a goblet you have, it's yellow. There's pieces of art, there's there's like, a there's a saturation of esthetic,
Chanti 7:16
yes, and I also think that's something that is really reflective of me, that I always try to collect and spread beauty around me. So I feel like it's a little bit like that. It's like leaking over from the inside to the outside. So also all of my Yeah, all of my objects are like an extension of myself in a way. So it's like
that I like infect my surroundings with me in a way. I don't know that's good, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I also love to see it in people that I can, like, change them a little bit, or, like, leave something behind, and that they can, like, see later that blooms. Like, for example, there's like this girl at my work, and in the few years that I know her now, she has like, purple hair, and she wears, like sweaters with like little potions on it, and like, Little Bets and and everything's like, black and purple, and it's just cool, you know? And I'm like, yes, yes. I, you know, I created a little spark in somebody, and now they will grow up to be a hero and just like, spread their own magic around.
Yeah, I don't know. I just live for that shit. Yeah,
Josh Lavine 8:42
is there a is there a reciprocal to that? Like when you see the opposite, just that you've used the word boring, mundane, like when you see that, when other people embody that, or when you see that in the world? Do you have a reaction
Chanti 8:57
to it? Yes, it's hard for me to interact with that, but I have to do it because I like work in a school so, like, I mean, not everybody is the same, of course, so some people are just a little bit less interesting, but then I just still try to be as nice as possible and try to just like, I just want them to smile at me. Basically, I want them to look into my eyes. And, you know, like with stars, basically I want that, I want that that's something to achieve. Like, especially with the most like, I don't know, boring individual that never smiles, just, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's a little bit strange, but Yeah,
Josh Lavine 9:54
can you say talk about what you do for work, just like set that context. Yeah.
Chanti 9:58
Yeah. So I. Work in an after school daycare for the last seven years, I think, and also sometimes in a school where I do just like so after school, I just, I don't know, I help them with homework, but I also do like activities and stuff like that. So it's a lot of play, and I don't know, like exploring nature or bugs or whatever, just making art out of whatever. And also just like, see what kids want. So sometimes it's just like that they want to search for spider x, and then we just go and find spider X, something like that, or whatever. Just like, do spontaneous photo shoots, or, I don't know, do weird black light party. I just, I will see what happens, just so it comes out of their mouth. And
Josh Lavine 10:55
yeah, it's fun. Do you do you like the work you
Chanti 10:58
do? Yeah? Yeah for sure, yeah for sure. The only thing is that it's a lot of social and lot of SP, and that's okay, but, you know, it's all also a lot of sexes there, and I noticed that they don't always love my way of how I'm in the world, basically, and also how assertive I am, so that can, like, sometimes bump heads, especially when we're doing, like, a creative process or something, then I can, like, take over, you know, because I'm like, Yeah, passionate about it. Yeah, that's
Josh Lavine 11:44
interesting. Yep, yes. Are you? Are you willing to share an example, or just say more? Yeah, yeah.
Chanti 11:52
Okay, so, so like this six SP six that I'm working with. She, she was, like, leading this team meeting, and we have to, like, come up with, like, teams and stories about, like, the overarching vacation, and it's like a period of six weeks. And you know, in this you can actually do a whole lot of cool things with six week, six weeks. But I always think that it's important that I like, basically, make sure that it's good, because otherwise, I'm not invested. You know, I want, like, a team and cool story that I can, like, brainstorm about, and I don't know, like, make, make all the things that need to be needed to, you know, like, be made, basically. So everything looks good and is good, you know, it's like a certain standard, because I am, yeah, like little bit of an arts critic, like snob cop, whatever you want to call it. So I wanted things to look nice. Otherwise, I don't know. I just get not invested anymore. Like, I don't know. I just, it just loses my interest. I just don't want to work, like, with cliche, stupid stories. I just like, if I can like work about work, like, around something fairy tale related or whatever, you know, it's just more interesting to me,
Josh Lavine 13:28
right, right? Yeah, there's a certain way, like not wanting to be forced to have to be with mundane shit, yeah,
Chanti 13:35
yeah, especially when I know that it could be way better, you know, because when I'm in charge and I, like, actually push through, then it's actually a super cool team, and everything is, like, way more magical. So I know I can do it. But the thing is that not everybody is willing to do like, you know, like a whole performance, basically, with like, dress up and weird shit and like, theater or whatever. So I understand that, but still, yeah, and also, like, sorry, but to come back to the fucking co workers, so with the same girl, she, like, there was like a Fallout or a falling out something. But it's like, not, like spoken out. It's super weird. But, um, so, so a while back when I went to Romania, I I, like, took unpaid leave, basically from my job to go there, and my co worker, she said to me, yeah, you have to be very, very grateful for a boss that she granted you this, that you could go there, because otherwise she couldn't have gone and then you have to stay here. To work, and I said to her, You know what? I don't fucking give a shit. I would just have left. Like, I don't fucking work. I don't live for this job, like, I can't find a new job. I don't fucking give a shit. Like, this is the first, you know, like this goes, this is my priority, basically because, like, like, whatever. Like, I'm not going to fucking not do it, just because the boss said, so, like, fuck that. And I taught her this, and apparently she didn't like this. And yeah, now she's apparently complaining about this to other co workers behind my back. Yeah, wow,
Josh Lavine 15:44
yeah. So
Chanti 15:46
I found out, like, I don't know, a week ago or something, and I was like, okay, yeah, what
Josh Lavine 15:51
was, what was in Romania that was important
Chanti 15:56
to you? Well, there I met my Australian Aha, got it new boyfriend for the first time, yeah, so it was more like, Okay, I want to meet him and, you know. And it was like, Okay, I just make my ticket, and I will just, you know, go. I mean, whatever. I just do it. And I knew that I could take unpaid leave. And if they say, Okay, you can't, like, what are they going to do? Like, fire me. They're not going to fire me. I'm like, super like, I'm fucking asked to company. So why would they do that? So that's what just like was in my mind. So, yeah, yeah. It
Josh Lavine 16:41
reminds me of something that you said. Well, actually, let me, I have a thing to say about this first, okay, it's, I want to just call out a dynamic that's happening in my own self right now, in this conversation, I find, I find it fascinating. I think you're in terms of, like any gram person, yeah, pretty, like, you occupy a really distinct pull away from me and my typing. You know, I'm social self, Pres image, you know, your sexual self, Pres image, last, right? Yes, yeah, 7794, this. I'm, like, my three brain is having a hard time, just like squaring the fact that, like you sort of this person dressed like this Shepherd, like Pied Piper, in these children around, having these conversations with a bunch of self press sixes in a classroom, and then throwing a fit because you can't see your boyfriend in Romania, and being like, what Are you gonna do? Fire me. It's
Chanti 17:42
like, yes, yeah. So I can't understand why this is triggering to them. I can understand it, yeah,
Josh Lavine 17:49
yeah. Can I just resolve something in my own head for a second? Do you like when you go to work? Do you adjust your appearance in any way to be quote, unquote, more professional? Do you,
Chanti 18:00
no,
Josh Lavine 18:01
you don't you see you show up like this, no, yeah, yes. I think that's great. I think that's amazing. I can really learn from that. I could learn from that. That's it's interesting.
Chanti 18:16
Yeah,
Josh Lavine 18:16
I bet they do. I bet they love it. I mean, it's cool to Yeah, you know, it's like, especially how, what are the age? What's the age of kid that
Chanti 18:27
you work with? Two until two till 12? So it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And also with the kitty headphones, I also wear that, yes, yeah. And not like, actually, when I'm working, because then I would be wearing a headphones. But I do wear earplugs, and I say to them, You're so loud. I'm wearing earplugs because of you. I'm also that asshole. Yeah.
Josh Lavine 18:57
Well, I think this is one of those. This is one of those moments where I'm like, the Enneagram is real because it's like your typing is the like there's not really, as I experience you and as I understand your type structure, the idea that you would adapt into an esthetic of quote, unquote professionalism to like be in a certain way, in this, in your in your work environment, or that you would supplicate to certain structures of authority, and, for example, not get a remaining to visit your new boyfriend, because you have to hold down your job like there's No place for that to live in your type structure. It's like your type structure has an allergy to that kind of a thing. Yes, yes, yeah. Whereas in my tribe structure, it would be, I would have a hard time doing what you did and just being like, Fuck everyone. Like, this is what I'm doing. You know, I'd be much more I would be much more reflexively Rule of. Adding, you know,
Chanti 20:01
yeah, yeah. I understand that,
Josh Lavine 20:05
yeah. Has it? Has it ever been, actually, let me. Let me ask this. Has it ever been? Let me, what's your algorithm in your head for, like, when you follow rules or don't follow rules, or is it not even a question, you just sort of is that not even a thing that you consider
Chanti 20:26
I mostly at the beginning, when I'm like, in a new place, I learn the rules from the place and find out where like the limits are and what like people get, like, very angry about, yeah, so I know where the plan is, you know, like, I know where all the limits are, so I can, like, break them very like, gracefully. And also, if persons like me, then I can get away with everything. So that's also a thing, yeah, I just make sure that they like me, basically, and then it's okay, because then I can just do whatever I want, basically. So that's
Josh Lavine 21:06
interesting, because we It reminds me of our last conversation where you said you have this framework in your head of, like, can I get away with this? Yeah. It's kind of Yeah,
Chanti 21:14
yeah. But mostly like, I just do it and I know that I can get away with it. And I think, yeah, there's also like, like, a knowing so, yeah, yeah. But there's because I think if you doubt about yourself, then you maybe, like, um, also radiate that kind of thing outwards, and then people will maybe believe you or something, I don't know, sure
Josh Lavine 21:43
you're kind of a reality, mostly
Chanti 21:45
Yeah, and actually, yeah and actually, like, like, I don't know, like, 99% of the time it works. It's just like, like, maybe, like, once in a blue moon that somebody isn't charmed. And then it's like a fuck,
Josh Lavine 22:01
wait. And then gets
Chanti 22:03
under my skin. Yeah, I have, like, a great example of this, by the way, I would love that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, good. So, I have a night shop here, not far away from here, and it's run by this Indian family. And it was like, think it was like almost eight years ago or something, and it was like this boy and I used to go in and have, like, tons of conversations with him. Always so nice. And, you know, we talked about everything, and we had like, good connection, I thought. And then the certain moment he told me that his father was going to find him a bride in India. And I said, What the fuck you grew up here? Why would you do that? I mean, you're good looking like what is wrong with you? Are you lazy? And he got very, very mad at me for that, because I think that I questions his manly hooks or something, or maybe his culture, I don't know, but I embarked on something, oh, and also, it's not even finished then, because, like, then his father came in and I said, Why do you do that? You know? And I actually, like, talked to the dad and said that I thought that he should find his own girl, because he is, like, capable enough to do that. So I think it's weird, basically, and from that moment, he didn't look me in the eye anymore, and he also didn't speak to me anymore. And then it's so fucking frustrating to me. Like one time he just, like, threw the money over the counter. He threw it at me on the grounds. And I was like, fuck, you know, like, no respect and and, like yesterday, I went out for the first time in one fucking week being inside, and I thought, I want ice cream, so I went inside of that night shop, and I wanted the ice cream, but they had, like, a shit ton of different kinds of ice cream. So I just looked there at this ice cream for like, fucking five till 10 minutes, like deliberating in my head which ice cream I should fucking buy. And then so behind the counter there was like, an, I don't know, his older brother and him, and they were talking in Indian, and they were, like, talking to each other, but this dude that I had falling out with, he looked straight at me, and he said something in Indian. So I said to him, like, I am just, you know, I know it's taking long. I'm just like, because there's so many ice cream and I don't know which ice cream I want. And he said, Did I ask you anything? And I was just like, Ah, fuck you. I'm not going to buy fucking ice cream for you, asshole. But I didn't say that. I was just. Mad and and just walked out, and I started screaming on the street to my roommate about it, and then it was like, Ah, why? Why does this upset me so much, I think? And then I said out loud, I think it's because my charm doesn't work on him, and because he's still mad at me, yeah. And I think that's like a moment where I've fucked up with my social blindness, because I should have, like in hindsight, if I think back, I mean, kind of understand now why this would be like a painful moment from him. Okay,
Josh Lavine 25:36
how did you Yeah, what's your understanding now of that?
Chanti 25:40
Well, I think that for him, it's just like, probably tradition. And also I am pretty, I don't know vocal, and I can be maybe, I know assertive, I can be assertive. And I think, yeah. And also I said that he was lazy and stuff, and I involved his father. So I think that's all like, shame points, probably from him. So
Josh Lavine 26:07
yeah, as a as a social type, I'm like, listening to your story. I was like, Whoa. That was like, the the audacity to so, like, as a social type, I'm like, yeah, very, I'm very just aware of trying to respect certain social customs. Like, okay, like, yeah, you know, I don't agree with arranged marriages, or, you know that that, but I'm like, okay, cool. Like, if that's your thing, and that's the construct that you're buying into, and it's your tradition everything, then it's not my place to question it, or to make you, yeah, you know, enroll you in a different perspective, or whatever. So anyway, so there's some social blind, I guess there, but then there's also the seven piece right of just kind of fuck your orientation, like, here's, here's, yeah, you're, you're giving up on, like, a possibility for yourself that would make your life better in your
Chanti 27:05
Yes, yes, yes. And I just didn't understand why he couldn't see that, you know, like, yeah, yeah. Especially because, like, when I talk to somebody, I just see them all as the same. I don't see, like, different standings, or, you know, like culture, whatever, just right person is person, and I can connect with whoever I want and whatever I want. Like, there's magic in everybody, if I can get it out, but it's just, you know, like, some people are just, I don't know, like, stuck in their own ways or something in their own stupid social ways. Yes, I don't know. I think it's super limiting. I just like social in general. I think it's so limiting people just like, worry about stupid, stupid rules and things. And for me, it's just like, okay, whatever that doesn't apply to me, you know, like, I'm just excuse from all of that. That's how it feels for me. Yeah. And also, like, like, for example, like lots of people with social they have, like, certain social groups and and, like, I don't know, like, rules, like, Okay, if you are into something, then you're bad or something. But I can just, like, see that all separate from the person. You know, it's just, like, something that I like about a person, and then, okay, like, for me, it's not, I don't really give a shit, like, what your political orientation is or whatever. Like, yeah, I see only, yeah, yeah, maybe, like, only when they would do, like, something that I really can't handle, like, when I'm around them, you know, then, it would affect me, but if I don't see it, it's not there. Oh, wow, that's painful to say.
Josh Lavine 29:10
Wait, what? What just happened? What did you just realize?
Chanti 29:13
Um, well, that I just said, like, okay, like, I don't know. Like, they might have like, shitty, shitty sides to their personality, or maybe they're, like, not the greatest, or maybe they have, like, a political, weird thing, but if they don't do it when I'm around there, then it's not there, you know, it's not them. And then I said, it doesn't exist. But then I said, Oh, my God, that's actually, you know, like, not the greatest. So
Josh Lavine 29:44
that's fascinating, yeah? Because it's like, well, this is, this is, I think it's another social blind thing, because it's like, yeah, in a way, it's a strength, because you're seeing actually, what, what energy is present in this person right now. You know what's, what's, what's alive right now in this person? Yeah? And if it doesn't exist in this moment, it's not part of you're not holding say, like, um, a phrasing I've used for social is, like, you're aware of, like, the baseball card version of this person. And you're kind of all it's always in your head, you know, like, what their stats are, what their associations are, what their generals, like, beliefs are, and you know, like, what where they belong, what deck they belong to, whatever. That's kind of, yeah, what team they belong to, and social, social blind, just not really caring that. So like, the the complete social picture of a person isn't cohering in your mind as you're interacting. Yeah, I
Chanti 30:36
make my own. Yes, I make I built my own pokemon cards basically right with their steps. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, because also, like so when I broke up with like my previous partner, I needed a roommate, because I can't fucking afford the house that I live in on my own, so I was just like this guy that I spoke to, like once or twice on Instagram, and I knew that he didn't have a house anymore, and and he was kind of okay and normal to talk to, you know, he seemed nice. So I said, Oh, maybe you can live with me just like random. And I said, Okay, come, just come and I will be here somewhere on, like, what was it like, a yard sale that I was doing, you can help me, I said, and then he just came there. I never saw him before. And, like, so easy, nice, you know? Like, okay, I, I mean, you know, he's person and he seemed like, yeah, like, normal dude, but like, a little bit alternative. I knew, like, a little bit about his background, but I didn't really care about it. And then all the people start coming in, like, Dude, seriously, you can't trust him. He did this with this person, and this with this person. And, oh, it's the acts of this person. And ah. So it was like a whole fucking weird social waves that come, would come my way, like, warning me of this, this, this person, you know, that I want to take into my house. And I just thought, like, Okay, fuck that. And I will just like, ask all of these things that I heard directly to him, and I also involved a friend of mine, who's an eight so I thought, okay, that would be good for intimidation. So just like, took her with me and and we just like interviewed him, basically. But not like interview, but just like all, like, those painful rumors that we heard. We just, like, asked them all, and, yeah, I mean, there are always two sides to every story, and I just took him in, and basically just had a lot of shitty things happen to him, and a lot of shitty people that had shitty situations, I don't know, just like, tripled, and now it's, it's super good, you know, I'm, like, a half year further, and everything is super nice. Like, I don't give a shit. I just know that I can't go to a certain party anymore because all the people there will be super annoying then. But that's,
Josh Lavine 33:19
that's it, basically, because of your association with this guy.
Chanti 33:23
No, they still would like me. I know that they would like me, but they will warn me about him again. I see you got it, yeah, yeah. And because I know that they will still like me, that's, that's like the beauty of being me. I think I can go, you know, like, wherever. And I don't know that doesn't affect me, like, but I think the problem is he cares about all the rumors. And apparently he was like, the ex of some girl that I knew, and, yeah, apparently very sloppy ending of the relationship. And apparently, the whole scene, or whatever, they all decided to hate him. So he was, like the most hated figure there. And, yeah, had, like, a lot of rumors, and he was just, you know, he's basically, it's like a boy who has autism, and also ADHD, so, yeah, so he basically, and then also become homeless. So I thought this was just somebody who needs a new chance. You know, I don't fucking, yeah, give shit about what people's previous stories are. You know, build new stories together, and I don't know sometimes people just need I don't know new people believing in them or something, yeah, without previous judgments or Yeah,
Josh Lavine 34:53
I find what you're saying really, like, sweet and inspiring in terms of, like, your kindness. And stuff. And I'm also what's occurring to me is that it feels like there is a particular brand of or flavor of super ego around, I know, if we don't usually call seven a super ego type, but there's, there's, like, a certain insistence on a positive framing of like this, or like being willing to, yeah, feeling willing, being, being willing to, what, give someone a chance, or see, see the positive side of a person, and just kind of let the other stuff go. There's something, something positive outlook about that seven, nine stem, yeah,
Chanti 35:38
yeah, yeah. But it's also maybe my wing, my my six wing, yeah, my only, my only dose of super ego.
Josh Lavine 35:47
It's like, Yeah, super ego about positivity, yeah. It's like, there's rules and and frustration too, and judgment for other people not being on that same page or not being willing to give
Chanti 35:58
that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true, yeah.
Josh Lavine 36:05
I wanted to ask you about your relationship with being low super ego. So we talked last time that you kind of you realize somewhere in your mid 20s that your behavior has consequences, and then it does something to people, yeah. So do you? Do you? Was that a particular moment that you realized that, or kind of a dawning realization over time, and what was it that made you realize it? What was that like to realize that?
Chanti 36:36
I actually think it came very late, my sense of, oh, this is not nice for people. I think it was because I had a friend which I'm not really friends with anymore, but so she basically told me, like, how my behavior, like affected her and and, yeah, that was like sobering, in a way, but it is something that comes back, and sometimes I forget about it again, and then it comes back later. So it's like a recurring theme. Because also, like now, recently, I had the same thing happen again with my brother, because, you know, he is with, also a tree like you, with seven and nine and as PSO. And he lives very close to my father. And since he had like, a stroke, my brother took it upon himself to, like, do a lot of things. So my brother is going over the whole financial thing, you know, like my whole that's financial stuff. My dad used to do a lot of charity work in Africa, and also went there and, like, built or funded whatever different like, you know, like hospital hospitals, like, next to orphanages, they he provided, like, sleeping places for the kids. He made sure that they all had, like, good school, you know, like, all that kind of stuff. And he was super proud of it. And I loved that about my father, that he could, you know, like, do that, because he was so passionate about it. But after a stroke, those people kept, you know, like sending like, oh, we need money. We need money. And I told my brother, okay, but now it's done because, you know, this is my father's project, and, you know, like, eventually it has to stop, because it is what it is like, that's just, yeah, you know, like, you can't maintain that. That's too much work. Another thing that my father did was, like, renting out houses, but from France, in Italy, because he's Italian, but there was, like, I think, 30 different houses on multiple websites. And so when he got the stroke, we had to, like, take over. But there was no database. There were no like passwords, nothing. So we didn't know which house belongs to which person. And so we decided, me and my brother, that he would take Africa and I would figure out the houses. So that took me so much fucking work, and wow, you know, like to to also, like, find all the hidden websites, because I think that he put all those different houses on, I don't know, like, over 15 different websites, and I didn't know which websites, so I just had to go, like Google and try to find it. And then I. I also like try to hack into the system, you know, like, with his email address, and find like, a new password and blah, blah. And then, like, all those inboxes were like, filled with people that all rented stuff, and some of them were like, automatic. So the thing is, all those people needed to go to their fucking vacation home and so much work, because I had to, like, contact them all and basically tell them that my dad had a stroke. And, you know, like, I don't know what happens. I also don't know who this house belongs to. So that's another problem. So I ended up, like, going through his whole telephone list and try to, like, pair every house with a person. Eventually, after months of work, I think I got everything except for, like, one website. And I also contacted all the owners. I forwarded them all the bookings for the coming months, and I tried to delete all the houses, and so I thought I'd done enough, you know. Like, okay, this is all the work I am doing. I am finished now, but the work didn't finish, and that's the problem. And in my mind, I was like, Yeah, but I've done enough, you know, like, I've done all of those things. Like, I think that's that's enough, but this stuff keeps going because he has to go to the hospital. He has to go to the psychologist with my dad. You know he has to visit every time he has to do groceries, he has to take my mom to there, blah, blah, blah. And he said to me, like that, he thought that I didn't care, that I, you know, he felt super lonely, basically. And to hear him say all of those things, I can imagine that it must be very hard for him, but he also has to understand that this is not my, my burden to take, you know, if, if he decides to do that because he is core attachment, then, you know, like, Okay, you do you, but I am not going to do that. Like, you know, sorry, but I'm not going to give every weekend up because of that. The thing that I can do is listen to him more, and also, like, call my dad more, you know. And like, do video chess with him. And when I'm recovered after my surgery, I can, I can go there too, you know. But yeah, my my care is limited, basically, and, and I think that's hard for people sometimes to understand that and to accept that maybe, you know, yeah, so
Josh Lavine 42:47
is it? Is it like he's making specific requests for material support from you in terms of showing up in certain ways or being there in certain ways that you don't want to do, or that don't feel possible for you, or something like that.
Chanti 43:06
I asked him, like, can you I will? I want to make it less difficult for you, but you have to give me specific things to do, and you have to keep reminding me to do it. And then he said, I will come back to that. Basically, okay,
Josh Lavine 43:20
I see so he's so maybe he's because I'm thinking about it from my perspective, as a as an attachment, like, there's probably, like, an assumption that, like, Well, if the family is sorry, if the family is
Chanti 43:32
yes, struggling, just my job, basically, because I'm part of the family, yeah, yeah,
Josh Lavine 43:39
yeah, that you should just automatically assume that you're going to be there to help, help with when she's a fan, yeah, yes. And the fact that it's not an assumption that you're carrying is something that he's having a reaction to. Yes,
Chanti 43:52
absolutely. And I understand that. I completely understand that, but he has to understand also that, you know, I don't have a car. I live in a different country, and I'm not going to give every weekend up to go there. So, yeah, that's basically it. And but I do understand that it's difficult for him, you know, and for other members of the family, but that's just the way it is. And I think that is maybe access, hack sets versus attachment too, definitely, yeah, yeah. And also social blind versus not social blind, yeah.
Josh Lavine 44:31
There's a lot going on there. I'm wondering about like, how do you how do you know when you're rationalizing behavior in a way that is kind of self justifying, or, I guess, like you'd use the word selfish in a way that actually is if you really stop and think about. To not align to your values versus when you're making like a genuine argument?
Chanti 45:09
Yeah, yeah, I think so. In the case of my brother's story, I think I I I also vocalized, like, where I can be better, you know, like, I know that I'm also, like, slacking. So I was also saying this to him, you know, like, so I will always point out my own flaws and whatever. Like, if I'm aware of it, like, I don't really care if I look, you know, like I it is not hard for me to say that I was wrong. Basically, you know, like, that's okay. It's, it's more. Yes, sometimes it's just, it's just different. I think it's more when I want something, then sometimes I start rationalizing and stuff. Yeah, but I think that I'm like, self aware enough to, like, see the difference. But I know there's a fine line, obviously. I mean, I know that I could go there more, but I was okay. So first it was preparation for Australia. Then I went to Australia. So I think that's already like five weeks that I couldn't go to my dad. And then it was one weekend that I had to go on some kind of birthday weekend with some friends of mine, and the weekend afterwards I had an appointment. So yeah, then it's like a lot of weekends past, and now I had the surgery. So yeah, if I think about it, it's too long. I know it's too long, so I know that I'm also like rationalizing it, so to make my own feeling of guilt a little less, yeah, yeah. Because if I think about that, then I feel it, and I don't like to feel it, you know, because it hurts, yeah, yeah. So yeah, that is a thing. So sometimes I know that something isn't right per se, yeah, okay, that's your point. Okay? And then I start rationalizing it. But it's also a way to not make myself too guilty about it, because if I, like, start to see it from the other person's perspective, then I can see like, how they see me, and that can be very disenchanting. Like, Oh, fuck. I am not a magical, nice fairy creature that I want to be. I am an asshole, like it true. Yeah, yeah, I know that I can be selfish assalamu, but yeah,
Josh Lavine 48:27
yeah, that tracks and makes sense. There's something. There's something in me that I'm I've got my finger on something I'm trying to ask, like this assumption that your brother's carrying that you should be, you should, quote, unquote, be more, yeah, drop everything and go home to your family, because that's because, like, someone's sick, there's so that, if that's the lens he's coming from, you're coming from a different lens. Yeah, and there's something that that like invoking that set of values creates friction to a different set of values that you're holding in yourself. And what I'm wondering is, what are those values
Chanti 49:03
from me myself? Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, basically that I want to just have fun and yeah, and also spend as much time video chatting with my love. So yeah, because that is also like in the daytime, of course, no wait until until four and then from 12 at night, I can do it again. So it's like, I just like, live around that. So if I go to Holland, then, you know, I don't have the time to video chat. And you know this, like priority thing, I think, yeah.
Josh Lavine 49:46
So what happens when in a conversation, for example, between you and your brother, if he tries to assert that value frame on you, if he's like, Oh, it gets very mad,
Chanti 49:56
yeah. But
Josh Lavine 49:57
what happened? What happens for you, though, is. My question, like, what's like, what's the impact on you of his, of someone, whether in this situation or another, someone asserting values like you should be, you should care about these values.
Chanti 50:13
I don't know. I think it hits something like deep inside of me, just like a little dagger in the heart. I think because when you said that, I tried to, like, incorporate it, and I felt like a little stat, okay, yeah, I think so, yeah. Because deep down, I think I know it, but I just prefer not to do it. You know, it's just like, I rather have fun with my free time. That's it,
Josh Lavine 50:43
yeah, yeah. So,
Chanti 50:47
yeah, but I can still make it fun if I go to my family, you know, I can, like, get the best experience out of that. I know that, but because when my dad was still good, then it was harder for me to go home, because he in his personality structure as a 126, he can be super overpowering, you know. And you feel that energy in the whole house like that was heavy, you know, energy from like an Italian father, it was always like, nits picking on everything and, yeah, always complaining. Never good enough. And it's proof. It's like hearts, you know. But, and my mom is a nine, so she's just chill. But now that my father is in the hospital, or in this, I don't know what to call it, place where he lives now, it's, it's a lot chiller in the house, because, like, the energy is chill, you know, kind of just like smoke joint there with my mom. So that's good, you know, we do that. So that's nice that we can do that. Because, like, my mom would always, like, sneak around and do that. Yeah. So that also has, like, a certain charm, in a way, like, oh, we can, know, come we're going to smoke joint in the garden together. And then like, oh, we can't, like, let him know that we are doing that, but now, like, so it's like, the energy is, like, different in the house itself. So that's kind of good. Also, like, like, hanging out with my brother, but I also understand that he feels a lot of stress, and, you know, so, right, yeah,
Josh Lavine 52:40
yeah. What's coming for me is, is, I'm kind of, I'm tracking how like when someone basically says you should do blank that hits, that hits something in you that it's like it it doesn't, it creates a reaction in you that makes it unlikely for that message to penetrate. But if someone frames it like in these moments where you've realized that your paper has consequences, it seems like what's happened is someone has just told you how they felt as a result of what you've done or your actions or
Chanti 53:16
inaction. Yeah, it's hitting harder Yeah, because it's less of judgment and more, like showing what my behavior did, you know. So it's less attacking. I think, I think the Yeah, it's very attacking, yeah. And also, I shoot whatever, you know, like, you can't fucking control me. Bruh, so it's like, you know, like, this thing inside of me is like, you know, now, you know, like, I don't know, like, right? Yeah, that basically, yeah, well,
Josh Lavine 53:56
it's also, it's interesting to me to contrast shoulds like that, like the one that your brother's asserting on you and the should that you're asserting on, for example, your Indian friends at that store, because in in in one frame, in your brother's frame, or call it the attachment frame, you should hold yourself responsible to certain limitations your shoulds have to do With unconstraining yourself, freeing yourself. And so there's this fundamental clash in values there.
Chanti 54:25
Yes, that's true, but I think it is interesting, though, um, because, like, so for like, 17 years, I have been living with somebody who thinks the same as me. You know, like, it was also just like, whatever. I don't give shit. Just don't bother me like I am here in my happy cave, like fuck the world. Basically, I am not dealing with that. That is not for me, you know, like that is for other people, and I will come out whenever I like it. So I. I had, like, very much, also that's that thing. But now my new boyfriend really, like, I think it's because of a six fix, probably he also has more super ego, basically. So sometimes I just, like, discuss, like a thing like this, for example, with him, and then he can give me, like his perspective, and also like reasons why I should do it. And then it's like, okay, okay, I will do it for you. Then, you know, so,
Josh Lavine 55:32
yeah,
Chanti 55:35
but that helps me, you know, because sometimes I don't like to do something for myself or for a person, but if it's somebody I don't know, like my love, then, then it's like, easier for me just to do it. Just
Josh Lavine 55:50
yeah, you find a way to sort of justify it within the things you you you know, care about. Yeah, kind of Yeah.
Chanti 55:57
It's not that I don't care about my family. Yeah, you know, it's like, priorities, I think, because, as he's if he says, do it, then it's okay to, like, give up the time with him, to video chat, to then do the thing. Because he says, that's good. You know that you did that because it's your father and blah, blah, blah, and he did so much for
Josh Lavine 56:20
you, right, right, right, right, yeah, yeah. This is a related question, but we talked last time about this. Like you use the phrase that you have positive reinforcement inside your head for why you should do something. Yes, you remember what I'm talking about, yeah? So, like, why something is a good idea so you can get away with it, and it's hard to say no to yourself, yeah, can you take us? Just take me backstage. Like, what? What are the messages that happen inside your head?
Chanti 56:46
For example, I placed an order for, like, I don't know, like, 150 euros on things.
Josh Lavine 56:57
Okay, good, yeah.
Chanti 56:59
Like, I don't know. And I only have like, 200 in my account, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. So I don't know, I was just like, putting all of those things in my baskets, you know, like online shopping and, and it's like, Haha, fuck. I don't need all of this. And then I just like, click the website away. But then sometimes it comes back, you know, like this feeling of oh, but that would be so good to have Oh, and also this, and also this. And then it's like, okay, okay, I will open the website again, and I do it again and, and it was like, Okay, if I order, I can, you know, like, maybe buy all of those things because I wanted them, and now, then I have them all in one go, and but maybe I shouldn't, because it's like, kind of expensive. And then, like, I just ask other people, like, Should I do it? Should I do it? Just because I want them to say yes, and then it's like, okay, okay, like,
Josh Lavine 58:05
yeah, that's that's good, yeah. And if they say no, then you just ask someone else,
Chanti 58:11
yes, absolutely, yeah. Yesterday, even I went to the fucking pharmacy and I was, like, complaining about, like, this abdominal bands that I have to wear. And I was like, saying to the lady, like, Do you really think that I have to wear this constantly? And she said, Yes. And I said, Yeah, but yeah. But really, like, you know, like, I was like, asking more and more just to get, like, her to say, Oh no, no, it's okay. And then my roommate was next to me. He said to me, like, are you just going to ask people that? So he get like an okay? And I said, Yes, actually, I but I was still at the counter, so I said, Yes, actually. And if she says no, I will ask the other lady just to get, like, more information so I can still do my way. Basically, yeah, hilarious.
Josh Lavine 59:03
I love that's so interesting, like, how the six fix supports the seven to get permission, you know, yeah,
Chanti 59:09
yeah. But I ended up doing it, yes. I ended up buying all the things, yeah. And also, like, I don't need, like, one specific item in like five colors. I don't need that, you know, like, maybe I should just get one item and see if it's an okay item, and then I can still order the other four. Yeah, yes.
Josh Lavine 59:39
I have one more category of exploration here, and then we'll probably come to a close. This is a big question. So what have been like, the sources of meaningful suffering for you in life and as you've as you've grown, what has changed in terms of. Of what you experience really nourishing.
Chanti 1:00:07
Okay, those are two questions, yes, yes. I think kind of want to start with the nourishing thing. Okay,
yeah, so I think nourishing can be everything that gives me, like, I don't know, like electricity, like, you know, like interestingness, like nice conversations with people, something that, like sparks magic, basically, that can, like, potentially leads to whatever, like that thing I love, I love going into people's fantasy worlds. Yeah, like but I do notice that I also love to be taken care of, you know, and like that. There's that somebody really listens to me and also cares for my well being. And that is weird, because I didn't know that I needed that. I know it sounds super dumb, but like, because it's normal, maybe, but like, that wasn't like my priority at all. And now in my relationship, I can, like, see that that is like a thing that is really new to me, like that, that he actually listens and cares and is so willing to also, like, grow together as humans, you know, and, and I don't know, just like, it feels like there's that we are like two little mystical beings that, you know, just go on a fucking adventure in the I don't know why we just like mutate and and grow together and whatever, and just completely transformed through this relationship that we have now and and that is beautiful, you know. Like, I can, like, talk about everything to him. I can, like, say, vocalize whatever, and he will just say, thank you. I will do that, you know. Or I will make sure that I will change my ways or whatever, like everything, and that's so nice and new to me, because I, you know, like, normal people don't have that, like, you can't just say to somebody, like, super directly, like, Okay, I don't like this or that, or actually, You know, whatever, yeah, and that's so it's so nice, like that is nourishment to me,
Josh Lavine 1:03:05
yeah, I mean, and it's, it's also a contrast, I think, to your last relationship, yeah,
Chanti 1:03:10
yeah, yeah, yeah, because I was more of the caretaker there, you know, like I was more There was no room for my sadness or whatever. There no because every time that I was set or upset, he just said, Oh, you are making me feel uncomfortable with your mood, so you have to leave, yeah, or you got super angry. So that is, like, not a great quality. And in my, you know, like, delusional minds, I was just reframing it and, like, just ignoring it, basically, because I did love a whole other side of him, and was just focused on that, like, extremely, you know, like I just thought that I could get all the nourishment out of this one facets, but it's actually so much more. And now, you know, I have somebody who, like, really listens to me and like, wow, yeah, yeah. And that is new and beautiful. I think so yeah, I'm very grateful for that. Yeah. And I think that is something that changed in my life. I think, yeah, yeah. And also, we want to become like a better person for each other. And that's also nice, you know? It's like we use each other as a motivation to become a better version of ourselves.
Josh Lavine 1:04:40
It does kind of strike me, actually, that there's, there's, there's a social piece to what you're saying, and there's a heart piece to what you're saying. Because, I mean, I think, I think listening itself is a, I mean, it's a, it's kind of like you could call it the social dimension of the heart, or I think it's really in all three centers. Listening is all three centers. But there's. Hard thing that I'm pulling from what you're saying, because it's like someone who is actually taking in and witnessing your personhood and your inner needs and allowing for space for a full range of expression and and then being willing to meet you in those needs.
Chanti 1:05:19
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and that's beautiful. That's beautiful. And that's also interesting, because I previously thought that there was not really a social connection between me and my new boo, but actually there is. Now you mentioned it. Great. Nice. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, good. Yeah, because I yeah because I was, like, previously, talking about this to my friend Sophie, and she, she told me, or like, she pointed out, basically, that my previous relationship was more of, like a social connection that we started to have and with, like the whole friend group and our connection itself. But now that I think of it actually, maybe that wasn't the greatest social connection, even, because I began listen to my fucking stress and only once happiness and chill, then it's also not great, you know, right? Yeah, so, yes, yeah, interesting, yeah, thank you. Okay, so, and then where my other stuff was by my pain or, Oh, what was it?
Josh Lavine 1:06:42
I use the word suffering, yeah, suffering,
Chanti 1:06:44
yes. So my suffering is a lot in the social realm, in and also, I think, in the heart space. Yeah, sometimes that people like, especially like people in groups that can, like, turn on me. And I don't love that, because it's because of something that I did or said or whatever, and I sometimes don't know what it is, you know, sometimes they didn't tell me what I did wrong. And it's super frustrating because I don't know, and I need somebody to specifically tell me where I went, of the rails, basically, like my friend, my ex friend, used to do back in the day, that she likes, actually, like, points all the things out that I'm doing. And then it's like, oh, okay, okay. I see so also at my job, for example,
I felt this moment where I had the feeling that they didn't value me for what makes me, you know, like, different than the other people there. So
there, you know, like, because I have now a boyfriend in Australia, I know that eventually I have to stop working there. And, you know, like, go away. But that's also hard, because I also like the job. And so something inside of me was like trying to find, I don't know, like a reason or something, to reject it, I think, in a way. So there was this co worker of mine, and so I do extra hours for more money, and that is basically just, like cleaning at my at my workplace, or that I just, like, mob the floor for like, four hour, four hours extra a week. And it's kind of funny, because I'm really fraught, because you should look at my house like, I am the worst cleaning lady in the world, but I can, like, put on my cleaning face for the job, you know, because I get paid for it. But okay, so the coworker lady, it was, like, on a Friday evening, and she said to me, yeah, do you think that I should, you know, like, Fuck, what is the word mop? Not mopping, but, like, with a broom, sweep, no. Like, yeah, sweep that. I should sweep the whole floor. Do you think I should do that? And I said, Yes, of course you should do that, because otherwise it's way more work for me on Monday to get all the scent, you know, away, so I have like, way more time cleaning all the other stuff, because you didn't sweep the floor. And then she just, like, turns to another co worker and asks the same question. I was like, you fucking bitch. How dare you you know, I was so mad at her, I was like, oh, dare you. So, yeah, so I don't fucking appreciate that. Yeah. So, yeah, this, yeah. The same person was also like, a while back, and she wanted to throw away something that I made. It was like some kind of art thing that I made, like a few years back, but it's like in a specific team, you know. So it was like something Egyptian, like the, I don't know, like Egyptian doors, basically, and I drew, like, whatever cool symbols on it. It was, I don't know I, I'm proud of this, that I made this, and I thought this is cool for them to have when I'm leaving there, they still have something, you know, when it's that kind of team, they have something to like, decorate space, because there's nobody who can do it like me. Yeah, I sound super cocky, but you know what I mean. And she wanted to throw them away like she was actually going to do that. And I said, What the fuck are you doing? And she said, Yeah, but the boss says I have to do that. And I said, No, fucking little sick asshole. No, it's not true. The boss didn't. The boss didn't tell you, just on a fucking throw it away and you just say that it's okay, because the boss told you, you know, and you can, like, hide on the fucking bosses, you know thing. And I said, No, this is something that you can use later. And then she said, Yeah, but it's from cardboard. This will, you know, whatever this will spoil in time when it's in a fucking place where there's, like, moist. So I said, Okay, I will make sure that I completely classify it so it doesn't get it, you know, like it stays well. So I did that, and afterwards, I was so fucking angry at her, because I was like, How dare you throw away my shit. You should be so much more thankful that I actually leave you with all of this, you know. And I try to have like, a conversation with her, but I try to, like, tell her in normal human language without, like, being attacking that this is, you know, like, all the reasons why it's a good idea to, like, keep these things right, right? And, and she just said, Yeah, but you can just, like, make another one. And I was like, no, no, you know, you should value me more, because when I'm gone, I'm gone, you know? And that was like, something that, like hits me inside, like a pain point, like, Oh, fuck. You know that hurts, yeah, yeah, because it's, I feel very replaceable that and not, not valued for the things that I think that I deliver or can provide for the job, basically, what
Josh Lavine 1:13:11
you, what you just said there, I think that was, that's, that's the, that's the piece right at the bottom of the whole storm, You know, is the feeling, feeling replaceable, feeling Yeah, feeling not valued for your this is sort of boilerplate language, but like your unique contribution, you know, the thing you created, yeah, your art, your creation, is an extension of you, and there's a way that, yeah, someone throwing it, yeah,
Chanti 1:13:36
that's it. Yeah, yes, yes, that's it. And, and that's felt so not okay to me, basically. And then they say as a comeback, why don't you just take it home then? And then I said, No, that's not the point. You know, it's not the point, right?
Josh Lavine 1:13:54
So, yeah, because the point is to what to spread. The point of life for you is to spread your fairy dust around,
Chanti 1:13:59
yes, and if they throw it away, what is it worth? Nothing. You know. Yeah, that's it. Basically,
Josh Lavine 1:14:09
it's interesting because we're, we're, yeah, I mean, this is, like, this is a bit of an aha moment for me. I know we're kind of almost at the end of this, but it's a, it's an aha moment for me, because it's, it reveals to me how, like, how central to you this, this project is of making an impact on your environment with like or like magic, magic you know, or what, or leaving your leaving your fingerprints, your magical fingerprints.
Chanti 1:14:37
Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. And, yeah, and if they then just show it away, like, what is the fucking point then? Like,
Josh Lavine 1:14:48
so what? What's your what? Yeah, but what's the pain underneath that? So if they throw it away and you leave, then there's no evidence that you were there. You're you're forgotten, or I. Uh, yeah, maybe.
Chanti 1:15:01
But also they wouldn't have the right tools anymore to Make it magical for the kids. So for me, I think that is also big piece that I don't like it, that they won't be able to make it, I don't know, like, esthetically pleasing or something, like the whole all the walls at my job are all, like, painted by me. I just, like, I just put, like, my drawings everywhere, and I painted on all the walls. I painted on all the glass. So I think I made my mark there. But still, right, feels, yeah, weird. Actually, I think it's
Josh Lavine 1:15:45
oddly attachment to what you're what you're saying, you know?
Chanti 1:15:48
It's like, Yeah,
Josh Lavine 1:15:49
I know, yeah. It's like, you want to to, you want your impact to live on, and that piece is an attachment. But the, I don't know I'm fine. Yeah, there's, like, some really, it's interesting to me how much juice there is for you here, yeah.
Chanti 1:16:05
And I also think that there, you know, I want it to be place that I can always come back to if I want to, because I know that I can do my thing there without being bothered too much. And I know it's like a nice environment. So in a way, I know if I like leave and I want this job back over a few years or something, that I could just come back, and I don't know, and it would be nice that is still a little, I don't know thing of me there, yeah, it's
Josh Lavine 1:16:39
almost like a, it feels to me like a social wound, almost, because there's a this way that you've contributed to the social environment of this place, social self, pre whatever, but like, there's a way that you you've left your you've brought your creativity forward, your personhood forward. You've made this impact. You've created this environment for the kids, and then, yeah, something about just going away and taking your art with you and erasing all of your impact. There's it feels, yeah, some greed. There's some grief underneath that for you. Yeah?
Chanti 1:17:15
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah. That's weird. Yeah, still have my attachment nine.
Josh Lavine 1:17:28
Oh, there we go. Yeah, yeah,
Chanti 1:17:30
yeah, maybe, maybe yeah, because I also just like the dynamic there, you know, I know I like the people and yeah, it's also nice to see, like the kids grow up and stuff. It's just also, I know what, what to expect there, you know, and I know how to do my own thing, still without being, like, supervised or whatever, too much. So that's good. And I, of course, I don't know what the future will hold. I don't know what kind of job I will get later, and even if I get a job, but I probably have to get a job. I mean, I don't know, but I think so in the future. I mean, so I don't know what, like the next adventure will be, and what kind of job that will entail, yeah, yeah, but I do like working with kids, so, yeah, yeah,
Josh Lavine 1:18:26
interesting, yeah. So what? What's this been like for you? And how are you feeling
Chanti 1:18:35
good? Um, I loved it. Thank you for hosting me, or, yeah, having this conversation. Yeah, the ending, I was a little painful, but yeah,
Josh Lavine 1:18:48
sure, yeah, so we uncovered something there.
Chanti 1:18:52
Yeah, stupid, yeah. Another. Wounds, fun. Thanks. Thank you. It's
Josh Lavine 1:19:07
my gift to you. Thank you. Thank
Chanti 1:19:10
you. Thank you. Thank you, salty. One
Josh Lavine 1:19:17
of the things I've I've also found interesting about our, our dynamic in this, in this conversation, is that there's there's there's this, been this, like, push, pull between. And I actually, I've been feeling this inside, and I want to go back and see that, check the video to see if it was, if my energetic sense is actually true. But it's like, you're, you have this energy of kind of getting, let's see.
Chanti 1:19:47
Oh, I forgot something. We still have to talk about ASMR stuff, sorry. Oh, that's right. We should do that. We should do that. Yeah, go further. Sorry. In your thoughts, there's,
Josh Lavine 1:19:58
there's a way that. I'm trying to assert, like, a social frame, you know, on the conversation, and I'm trying to socially and, and, and I'm creating the context, and I'm drawing social ideas out and, and then there's a way that I've experienced, you kind of like slipping out of that and just being like, actually, I want to go over here. This is where my energy is going. And you sort of whip yourself up into an excitement about your own stories. And then I'm like, wait, what does that story connect to? And how does it make sense social frame that I tried to set? And then we kind of go back and forth, and I'm like, and then you Yeah, so
Chanti 1:20:35
yeah, you have, like, this spider weft thing. And it's like, Okay, stay on the spider web. And
Josh Lavine 1:20:44
fuck your spider web. I'm going over here. Yeah, I just think that's I love. I think that's the most interesting thing about the Enneagram is these real time dynamics where it's like, I'm triple attachment. I have a six fix. I'm drawing the spider web. I'm like, stay in the web. Stay in this frame. And you're like, No, I don't do that. I don't do friends.
Chanti 1:21:04
Yeah, that's super fascinating. Also, the topics that you go back to is also social topics, right? Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah. So something that I also recently started doing is the ASMR channel. Yeah, that actually just, like, morphed into an ASMR channel, yeah, so basically, I had conversation with my my boo, and he said to me, he was like, I don't know, going on, on a thing about, like, getting money from YouTube. And I was like, hmm, interesting, okay, but, yeah, whatever. And he was like, oh, but you can do it like this and automation and blah blah blah. And, you know, it's all, you know, like the algorithm, and you have to, like, deepen yourself in it. And then, I don't know, interesting, blah, blah blah. And I was like, Okay, I will just start. And he's still in fucking research mode. And I just, I am already, like, going there, and I just started with, I don't know, like, simple things. And then I just didn't know where it's would go to, but it's was like a fun new way to, like, invest my energy and time with it's like a cool new thing hobby. And at first I did like urban exploring, like, you know, like just walking into fucking houses, and I don't know, filming that. But the thing is that it is also a little bit dangerous to just, like, walk into any fucking house and sometimes, like, as vessels and stuff. So, yeah, then I thought, okay, maybe this isn't like, the best thing, because I still left, you know, I, like, have to endanger myself constantly to get, like, cool, I don't know pictures, basically, or videos. And then I, I don't know. I just had, like, a conversation with a friend, and she said to me, like, actually, you should be, you would be perfect for ASMR, because your videos are already very ASMR, like, you just have to make them longer and, you know, slower. And I was like, Hmm, interesting. And then I just, like, started with that and and then along the way, found out what ASMR was, because I really didn't have a clue what it was. I just thought it was very weird thing that people liked. And I also didn't know what it even, you know, like, what the triggers were, and people were like, saying all kinds of things to me. I was like, Yeah, I'm not going to do that. Fuck that. I will make my own thing. No, I will just create, like, this weird SX warp vortex, and I will just see where it leads, and that will be the ASMR and, and, yeah, and then, I don't know, I got very invested with it, and it's kind of fun, because it's like a way to, I don't know, just be myself, basically on a camera and try to
Josh Lavine 1:24:26
like it. You're definitely doing
Chanti 1:24:29
that spark, like, some very dust, like, like forced fairy dust to people. It's interesting also to like. So I have been in like, promotion, self promotion modes last few days, and it feels super weird because it's like, I'm like, trying to force it in people's throats. Basically, like, here is my fucking sex. Like, here fairy dust in your throats. No. Meditate hypnotized now, and it feels very icky, especially when I think about, like, my for fix doesn't like that. My fore fix could, like, stop that immediately, but I just have to, like, not think and just do basically, and then it helps, yeah, because I'm very, very determined to get money from YouTube. That is my goal. Like that. Is life interesting? Yes,
Josh Lavine 1:25:27
yes. Well, I watched one of the videos, and it strikes me as a particularly good medium for you. You know, it's like you get to set up your camera, you have this whole environment, you get your sexual display all going. You have your little orbs that glow in different ways. You have your ways that you just do weird things with your voice. You know, it's kind of like, it's a very enchanting, kind of fantastical thing that you're that you're doing, yeah, and yeah. It's another way to spread your fairy dust
Chanti 1:25:56
around, yes, yes. And it's kind of new thing that I'm exploring now, but I kind of like it. So, yeah, that's something new that I do. So yeah, maybe you can, like, put the link in the description, or something that people can. One
Josh Lavine 1:26:13
of my favorite things to do is to help promote people. So it's, I'm I'd be delicious, good.
Chanti 1:26:19
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, you
Josh Lavine 1:26:21
got it well. Thank you for doing this. Thank you. Yeah, really, thank you for doing this. Yeah, this has been great. Yeah, I'm, I can't wait to watch this back. I think it's, it's as I was saying before. I mean, I learn a lot from all these conversations, but especially the ones that where people are so different for me, you know, in terms of, like, just their Enneagram typing, yeah, no. So I just really appreciate you having the conversation.
Chanti 1:26:47
Thank you. Yeah. And I also had, like, two days ago or something, I had, like, I think it was the thing that you also do. I forgot to name whatever. It's like a certain coaching thing that you do, something diamonds approach, maybe, is that I don't know
Josh Lavine 1:27:12
the diamond approach. I actually, I'm not involved in the diamond approach, but I know I know what you're talking
Chanti 1:27:16
about. Okay, so basically, there was, like, a friend of mine, and she's like, coach, and we had to, like, ask the other it was like, in group, you know, like groups on Zoom, and we had to ask each other, like, constantly, like, one question over and over again, but and then the other person can react, but they just have to say, thank you.
Josh Lavine 1:27:37
Yeah, yeah, that's diamond approach. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Okay, good,
Chanti 1:27:41
I didn't know that, so I ended up doing that in different different groups of people, and it was so fascinating to me, because I was the only hacksato, so apparently I broke all the rules, and they didn't, and they had little bit more trouble to break the rules they set it at the end, which was fascinating, and also that I that six fixers, it's little not great for them like to live in General, like, I don't know, like they have, like,
four sorry, but seriously, like all the things that came out of them, I'm like, Oh, why is it so hard? It's not, it's not fun to be you. You know, Wow, I feel for you. And it was also interesting to me, like that, I recognize parts of myself in the other person, but like so it was like a girl, and she was a 694, and there we had like similarities in the nine four, and then the other one was like 973, which was social Self press and we had also a lot of similarities. But for her, there was, like, a whole lot of social awareness and judgment involved, and also, like the nine core. But yeah, it was interesting to see, for me, how the energy changed in every in every dynamic you know? Yeah, it's very interesting. So what I learned from that is that social isn't fun thing to have, like, I think that I can live well fear basically, because I don't have the restrictions of social. And also that six hat isn't fun. Yeah,
Josh Lavine 1:29:46
have the it'd be interesting to have a We should we need to stop in a second, but it'd be interesting to have a longer conversation about that, because, because what I'm wondering about is, is, I. Uh, on the on the one hand, you've mentioned how social is like the place where you've experienced the most suffering. And also, so it's a bit of a double sided coin, right? Like social, but also it creates openings for different kinds of nourishment that have eluded you, you know? Yeah, and I would say the probably the same is true between seven and six, like you're describing, absolutely, yeah, yeah,
Chanti 1:30:27
yeah. So that was interesting. Very interesting. Yeah, yeah, okay, but thank you also for your time. And I don't know the conversation, I really loved it. I hope you also had fun and
Josh Lavine 1:30:41
I did. Okay. Thank you. Okay, okay. Thank you so much for tuning into my conversation with Shanti. If you would like to learn more about Shanti, or you'd like to follow her on YouTube for her ASMR work, then you can go check out her channel at Moonflower underscore ASMR, I will put a link in the show notes. If you're a fan of the show and you're watching this on YouTube, then I invite you to please click the like button and also click Subscribe. It's a zero cost and very effective way to support me and my work in the school. It really helps us with search engine results and the Google algorithm and things like that. So it helps our work become more discoverable over time. And also, if you're listening to this as a podcast, you can leave up to a five star review, and also write some sentences about what you appreciate about the show. If you'd like to stay up to date with what's going on with the Enneagram school, then I invite you to come visit us at the Enneagram school.com. And finally, if you think that you would be a good candidate to be interviewed on this show, then please reach out through the school's website. Just go right to the contact form. I'll get right back to you. A good candidate is someone who knows their Enneagram type and has high resolution capacity for introspection, or someone who is a practitioner of inner work who is really articulate about their modality of inner work, whether that's, for example, Alexander technique, or focusing or breath work or yoga or something like that. Some way that you help other people get more in contact with themselves, then I would love to speak with you. Preference for type interviews goes to people who have been officially typed by the [email protected] you can go check out their typing services at their website. And I also recommend that you check out their subscription service where they type people in real time, type celebrities in real time, and have very sharp and good distinctions. And I think that they have the most accurate typing service in the world. So check them out as well. All right, that's it for me. Thank you for tuning in, and I will see you next time you
