Yamira 0:00
I have, like, a sort of this felt sense that we're all aliens, like everyone, like you're not the same kind of species as I am, like you're an alien. Like, sometimes that's just my way of reconciling how profound the experience of meeting someone new is, to say, like they are, they're like this grand other thing. Then they are not composed of the same parts.
Josh Lavine 0:25
This conversation centers in a big way around Jamir experience of losing her artistic portfolio when she was young, and experiencing grief of that and only recently completing the grief process by painting a painting about it, and we talk about her art before and after the grief process, and how her grief painting has more of her self in it, self with a capital S you could say, or kind of the heart center self. And I was pretty struck by how much heart center there was in this conversation, especially given that Jamara is a core head type. Something else interesting is that because jamira is instinctual, stacking is double people, social, sexual. There is an inherent drive to be connected and to seek social intimacy that is pitted against her five withdrawnness, you could say. And so we also track the journey of her going from isolation to intimacy. I think it's pretty clear in this interview how much of a head type Jamir is, but at the same time, I was really struck as well by how intuitive she is with her artistic process, and I attribute that somewhat to her being a five wing four, as opposed to five wing six. Typically with five wing six, we see a little more of a gridded thinking style five wing four, a little more of an intuitive thinking style. And her artistry really reflects that. I think jamira is a fascinating and beautiful artist, and she has a beautiful mind, and I'm very excited for you to learn about her her art, and also type five for this conversation. So without further ado, please meet my friend jamiro. So art have you so what's let's just kind of burrow into that for a second. Why are you an artist? What's kind of art do you create? What's the impetus for making art for you?
Yamira 2:05
Well, I would say that the why I came, the why came after quite a long time of just maturing into one's own person. I've always made art since I was a little kid. It was my first language. It came very naturally to me to want to speak through my hands. And in spite of having other interests, I devote myself in a very serious way towards art, because beauty is so ennobling to the world. It just it can enhance everything, if anything has like the character being beautiful. Suddenly it just takes this like you just, it's profoundly warming and just, it's an inspiring place to to experience and to be attracted toward, just like the nature of beauty and how it emerges in, you know, the patterns of nature, not beauty so broadly as human, you know, relationships, I would say, just like plainly, in things, in themselves. So, yeah, so I'm, I'm an artist. I make art. And, yeah, I'm just, I'm interested in how we can see things, and I try to present them in more, I guess, attractive ways to be simple, to be really simple about it.
Josh Lavine 3:37
This is something that you've said a number of times, like, make something attractive, make it accessible. What is it that you're right? Yeah, that theme. What is that? What? Yeah,
Yamira 3:47
okay, so, yeah, maybe to actually dive a little deeper often when it because it's not, I'm not looking into the world and saying, Oh, hey flower, let's depict flour. Let's just document flower. That speed that actually does not raise my pulse whatsoever. In fact, what I do is I start from a place of subjectivity, or the or more conceptual. So it might be a, let's say, a betrayal, or In very recent times, I finished a piece on the experience of grief. So I'll start from a place that is abstracted and has no image, but is this sort of like just a particular felt sense or understanding, like you have a wherever that place is, it's Gen, it's not, it's not in it's not it has no form, but it's so gripping, and I try to pin it down. I try to sort of open its anatomy, or, yeah, basically that to sort of open into it and discover what's inside by illustrating that. So, for instance, in my experience of grief, I saw my grief and myself. Of that matter as sort of a fallen whale. I love whales, so I was like, All right, let's now the whale becomes the scene. The scene is now this animal and this phenomenon called a whale fall. So I started to do a lot of research into, well, what is, what happens in the decay of this body? And I was thinking of my own grief, well, and through grief, we experience sort of an un sort of fragmentation of self, an unhinging, a coming undone. And I felt that direct experience so that I in thinking about fragmentation, I was looking into at the time alchemy, because I was like, oh, dissolution. Like, how do you get to what's what's happening when you're when things are being burned away, when things are just because in grief, you're you're losing something, you've lost something, and that's sort of the experience of the tragedy of that. So to sort of, you know, make this a little shorter, because I can, I can run with my own speech. I decided to have a conversation about the experience of grief through the decay of this whale, and then transformed that with various different instances where, I guess it was illustrated in the piece, how that resolved in myself. So it actually took quite a long time to experience grief. It was something I carried with myself for many years, and it wasn't until I'd fully gone through the experience that the piece could be completed itself. But yeah, so generally, all these works, my work, starts from trying to understand an experience. And I yeah, I guess, like, it's kind of like, yeah, the body of the thing, you kind of like, I'm opening it up, and I'm discovering its organs, where its heart lies. What does that heart feel like? What? How, where does, where did? Where was its dreams? Where did they? What? How did, how can I talk about these somewhat? These are they have no actual form. But how can I describe these abstracted places with the familiar and then I will stitch pattern those, whatever forms I decide to give, I guess, speech, to those places with with maybe a flower or, you know, maybe an animal, but they're never the things in themselves. Is the idea
Josh Lavine 7:16
I'm laughing because I if I feel like your whole type structure was in that answer, and also there's so much in, like, the way that you're on you're unpacking the experience of grief that actually, you know what, before I go into that, are you willing to talk about the origin of that grief and The like, the life experience that you had that brought that up for you
Yamira 7:46
Sure. Hey, you know what? Since I finished the piece, this is as good of a time as ever, okay, yeah, thank you for the platform to actually talk about it. Because, yeah, with that particular grief came with a lot of shame, basically, like when I was the year, the summer before I graduated from college, I was a junior, and I decided to go to New York City to take on all these internships and basically start to make a track to be an Artist. When I would graduate, it was that summer right before I graduated, and I brought with my I brought with my myself. I brought only a few items, like my backpack, suitcase, while belonging some speakers and my portfolio. I brought my entire art portfolio, everything that I'd worked on all throughout college, and everything I'd worked on in high school that was relevant to a mature artistic career. At least. I thought that point was in this portfolio, and the portfolio was unmarked. It was just like a large sheet of paper. I'd fold it in half. It just, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't a serious portfolio. Not that I didn't think I needed one. And I guess I just didn't, I don't know how to explain it, but I lost the portfolio. I left it on the bus on my way to New York City and and I just was, it could never be claimed that they just, it just completely lost everything. Oh, my
Josh Lavine 9:09
God. Okay, I remember, I'm I'm remembering that. I remember this. I remember this. You mentioned this actually last time we talked, but I didn't realize that this was the grief you're talking about. So, yeah, wow. Okay, so, and what was that like?
Yamira 9:27
Well, at first it was funny. There's like, an uncanny sense of was I tried to approach the loss when I realized it was truly lost after I'd done all the detective work to try to reclaim it. I was like, Okay, well, let's far. We freak out, let's call, let's email, let's it's not lost. But then when I realized it was lost, I had one moment of clarity where I was like, Well, I can make more. And that was kind of nice, until the shattering shame that follows, uh. You know, one being the author to the, you know, I guess the the crime that was to lose the most important thing in my life, apart from myself. Like, you know, I'm not so reckless as to put myself in danger, but I put my future at what I assumed was my future at the time i i was reckless, and I let it. I just I didn't take care of it. So how I well, for years, that grief haunted me, it was very difficult to make work, but in in the absence of the work that I was doing, I started to create new work, because it didn't feel good to it didn't feel right to return to those same places. So it was actually a catalyst for being a little bolder,
Josh Lavine 10:42
yeah, I mean a death and rebirth kind of situation. Oh, yeah, yes, yeah, exactly. But the grief, so the what was the grief like?
Yamira 10:54
Well, let me the grief. Let's see the grief emerges in a grant, a sweeping sense of utter shame and an emptiness. Because, for one, i How could I take myself? It's hard to talk take yourself seriously, and I just start from zero. I just start. I only had terrible photographs on like a phone, whatever phone model at the time was about like a flip phone, something really, you know, insufficient. So the grief was it shut me down. I never went, I never went out to art shows. I didn't I just didn't take I didn't treat myself with respect, and I didn't have pride in what I had done previously. It took me such a long time to just put it out in the world, because I had to rebuild the portfolio, sort of in the in the memory of everything I had already built up to that point. So I just kind of closed off. I just,
Josh Lavine 11:54
yes, yeah,
Yamira 11:55
I wasn't me. So yeah, that's how I that's I didn't deal with the grief. Is the point. So I decided to deal with the grief by making the peace. I thought I'd honor that place and explore Right, right. That helped
Josh Lavine 12:09
when you say, didn't deal with the grief. What does that mean? You Yeah, what does that
Yamira 12:17
mean? Uh, I guess. I don't know how I guess, because why I looked, I always thought there's only, you know, I didn't cry a lot about I cried, I think the moment it happened, I never, and I don't think I felt too much after the point, after the fact. And not that everyone experiences grief in the same way. Absolutely not. It could be, you know, some, for some people, whatever it is. It could be, you know, you could celebrate what was and move forward, but I think I realized my shame entrapped me in never allowing that thing to just not follow me. I think it always stayed with me and dragged my sense of being actionable in my life. I think it held me back. I think is how I can only attempt to understand why I made a lot of the decisions that I did, which I didn't make a lot of decisions at all I was I have to understand that myself before the incident and the after and then the aftermath of it. I, you know, I shut down. So I have to assume that I that I wasn't doing something to process it so much as just kind of like lugging it around. That that's how I can understand it. So, yeah. And hence the piece, and
Josh Lavine 13:34
this is, yeah, yeah. And, I mean, one thing to notice is that, so you said that happened junior year college, which is, at that point you're around 20 years old. Is that true? I
Yamira 13:44
was 21 years old. 21 was 20. Was 20. I was 20 years old. Exactly,
Josh Lavine 13:49
right, right? Yes, so. And this is a piece that you finished recently, and now you're 32
Yamira 13:56
I know I started when I was 27 that's, it's funny, 27 was the I didn't, maybe many people could probably relate. But in my 20s, I think I was still a very old teenager and sort of running around. And I wasn't until there, there was certain incidents, which around 27 I at least, I decided to, I decided to take some ownership of my life in the direction it was going. And I was like, let's be bolder still, and put out something that's just, you know, a big piece. Put it out there, like something that felt, you know, enormous to me at the time. I don't know why I was 27 might have been my brain fully formed, but that was that I just It took me a while to gain the maturity to go I want to be in the world. I wanted to be public facing. Actually, was when I was I became public facing. I had a lot of my jobs up to that point. Were i. Not always engaging with people, so I then I took a job at a restaurant, and I was forced to talk to people all the time, which makes you very self conscious. It turns out you can't just fiddle Yeah, fiddle away, yes, yeah,
Josh Lavine 15:16
yeah. Okay. There's a lot of themes kind of dancing around here. I'll just want to name a few of them. So one of them is the not to be boxy or pedagogical Enneagram about this, but there's a interesting relationship to fiveness and something like grief, which is a really intense and hard emotion, and the kind of cerebralizing of it, or mentalizing of it that delays the processing of it, you could say in a certain way, and it's remarkable. Here you are having recently finished a piece that is a major part of your process, or maybe even the process of processing that. So that's, I'm curious about that whole thing, and maybe there's a before and after of the piece, and your experience of the grief there. So that's what paragraph one paragraph two is, let's see. Well, this, this theme of being public facing or not, and a theme around sort of isolation as five, or a relationship with wanting privacy or needing privacy, and these kinds of things, which is a pretty common five theme, and we think that probably your social, sexual, instinctual stacking, which is double people, and that's an interesting contrast to a very private type. But there you are at a restaurant, having to interact with people and sort of put yourself out there in a people realm, yeah, but anyway, so that's and there's a lot to unpack in sort of privacy. It's also very possible to be quote, unquote private, even when you're in public, interacting with people. And so which of those two things feels juicy right now to dive into towards the briefing? But you choose,
Yamira 17:00
yeah, no, I I'm not especially partial to either. I think they all kind of feel related. If you want to go like sequentially, we did speak about I did drop the fact that being public facing was another catalyst for even the piece. I realized actually maybe we should start from there. Okay, yeah, go there, yeah, if only because, well, you'll as you'll see. And or so my when I was 27 a dear friend of mine who had met prior re entered my life, and he noticed that he's like, you're an artist. You need to go. You need to be working the restaurant industry. You need more time to yourself. Because up to that point, I was working with my hands. I was working as a jeweler. I was casting and assembling and painting Mezzes and various dreidels and Jewish spiritual work or items, yep. Okay, funny little chapter. Great people who I worked with, but at any rate, so I spent a lot of my time sitting down, you know, not engaging, and then going home and working. And it was like and it was just very stark in that way. And at the time when he had recommended working in a restaurant, I always, I saw it as well. It'll free up my time, didn't? I just didn't, at that point, comprehend that it would just just a fierce fire of, you know, fire, baptism by fire, engagement with people, just like truly being present with them and doing that. And I think now that I had this time availed to me via working in a restaurant and then actually talking to people constantly and being confronted with humanity constantly, and at this place it was, it's a bar, so it's sort of the unraveling of personalities and the things that are said and the person that you're allowed to be in front of those personalities, like my personality suddenly was essential. It wasn't just that I needed to be competent or that I needed to be effective at something, it was that I needed to be personable. And so at any rate, in talking more, I was talking a lot, I had to and having a lot more time, I think it brought me, I think I kind of came more into wanting to, I think because the grief that I started that piece around that same time, and I think it was just like the sense of I wanted, yeah, I wanted to be known. I think I desired a sense of, actually, feedback was important for my mental health, for my ability to because even talking about the work with other people, I realized, Oh, this is that feedback was so essential. And even wanted to
Josh Lavine 19:53
you want it to be known. What's this you that wanted to be known? Is that the part of you that was holding on to the green. For just the part of you that had not yet been sort of intro that you hadn't introduced to the public, other parts of you,
Yamira 20:07
no, just No, the part of me that I want, that that's truly the me, or, you know, whatever aggregation of things that exist, that is me. Yeah, those are, generally, I are for my intimate people who are intimately known to me in my life. The part of me that the self I want present to the world was the artist. I realized the artist was in in talking with others. I had that job to promote the lifestyle of the artists I wanted to be, and so I had to it. Put it in perspective. Was like, why am I doing this? I was like, oh yes, because I need to. I want, I want to re I want the world to know that I'm here. So the grief, the sorry, now if this is truly me, like thinking about this in this moment, yeah, great. But the grief was the first piece that I decided to go with, I think because it all felt like there was, there are stakes involved. Suddenly, it's like, All right, let's go for it sort of came to me an epiphany. To be honest, I was at a show, and I the last work I had done up to that point was a, what I called diary art. I had made a few pieces for myself to rebuild my sense of habit towards making but it was nothing I felt proud enough to say. This is my mature work now. This is part of the next portfolio, like I had maybe, like one other piece, but it wasn't. I didn't feel right. So I was like, Okay. I had been just something inside was beating and waiting to, you know, be born. And it hit me an epiphany, and it was coincided with the time where I was at this place. Listen, I don't want to be in a restaurant, so why am I there? And I think just sort of in that call, like that cauldron, or in that the pressure of that, of the feelings that come with, I'm here now. Why am I here? Who am I? What am I here to do? It sort of the bubble blue, or the, you know, the caterpillar in the cocoon of what that piece was emerged, and I had the epiphany of, okay, I want to do this piece now. It just came out at that time. It was no more logical than that. It was more of a, yeah, like a chemical reaction to being in front of people and being like, okay, let's then, let's show them. I want to show myself who I am. I want to reintroduce myself to myself and the world and simultaneously. And that piece felt like the most powerful way to do so
Josh Lavine 22:39
that is remarkable. I mean, to put it in, what I'm tracking is that's like a that's really heart saturated language you're using in a certain way, like it's, you know, revealing yourself, being yourself, knowing yourself, knowing yourself for yourself, showing that real you to others. I mean, this is like the journey of sort of coming out in a certain way. And, yep, maybe you know another way to put it is we could frame it from the point of view of five avarice and the withholding of the self and then kind of overcoming that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But let's see something that stood out to me when you were talking about that, was your use of the words there were stakes involved now. And the way I'm hearing that is that the stakes that were involved now were very personal, like the sense of you're actually putting yourself on the line in your work. And there was some sense of a before and after of that, like, is it true to say that the work you were doing, the art you were producing prior to that, was less personal and not as connected in some way, lower stakes?
Yamira 23:53
Absolutely
Josh Lavine 23:55
Okay. Give an example of what that might have been.
Yamira 23:58
Yes, and I'm very proud of all the work that I've ever done. And at different points, I've had glimpses of a before and after. There are glimpses in my previous portfolio where I felt I was it was sort of like this. It was I was merging into what I wanted, where I wanted to go. But it wasn't. It wasn't a self conscious effort. It was sort of just things happened, and that's okay. So as an example, very concrete example, there's this one piece called free willing, and there will be a link to my work for one to refer to with this piece. Great. But basically, yes, you have to make it easier, because visual art is such a thing one must see with their eyes. Um, their eyes. The piece, the conceptualization was, I had been reading a lot into Buddhism, and I continue to to this day, and they're in the in the Tibetan tradition. And specifically, I was reading this book on Dzogchen. There's a sim. All, it's a circle, and it's divided into three parts, and they kind of swirl these three parts, the subdivisions, they swirl. That's so a kind of spinning, sort of spinning sense to them. And it's one image, and it's called a young kill, a young kill, and a Kyung kill translates a sort of free spinning, free willing, just sort of the sort of the this, this nature of, basically there and all three, the sort of the path, the root, the path and the goal is all in one. And so when you're approaching the spiritual path, the root of it should be, I guess, this understanding, or the root should be like the aspiration for the cessation of suffering in the Buddhist tradition, that is the root the path. Is the path of how to get there, the process of whether, whether various means in this path, and then the fruit. Is this the goal that you have, that is the end. So there's the root, the path, and then the fruit slash the goal. But they're all in one because in the in even the aspiration, you are practicing, the understanding that you are, that you're, you're to be, to have no sense your cessation of suffering is valid and present now as a possibility. So the symbol was so powerful to me, I thought I wanted to relate to that symbol. And my way of relating to this symbol and letting it become me was to create a piece that was also likewise composed within three parts. And it was basically a caterpillar in one part, a chrysalis, which is the next stage of the caterpillar's life. And the last one was butterfly. And they were all, they're all conjoined to create this one image that is spinning, if to, if to suggest also that in the seed, in this, in the caterpillar, in the chrysalis, is the butterfly, is the is the eventual becoming that it, you know that that it always is, but in through different forms of its self, and I would say self understanding, but in its life stage, it is so in the past, like that is such a that is has nothing. I mean, in some sense, it has a lot to do with my own in interest and investigations into Buddhism, and am I sort of paying homage to that or honoring that? But unlike the grief piece, like the grief piece, is so so strikingly personal, and uses the same sort of, I would say that's the same sort of metaphorical language I used with it. But I did not start from a place of, like, let's see, I feel like, with the free, willing, it's a lot colder. It's um, it's it's impersonal, is that's not
Josh Lavine 27:53
seems like it, yeah, like an idea or a symbol that just, it fascinated you, just just on its own merits. But it didn't have, like, a certain wasn't rooted somewhere in you, you know,
Yamira 28:03
Yeah, apparently I'm smart.
Josh Lavine 28:07
Or was it? I mean, maybe not.
Yamira 28:11
I it's hard to say, like, I regret to sometimes lock do credit, like I can't always credit my point of view as being, I don't wish to misrepresent. I think at the time I maybe I had a desire to be closer to the practice, but I always, I always was, ever only, I mean, it's hard for me to say, but I want to say that I maybe I only had a light glimpse of a personal connection, and it was, if any, if anything, it feels light to me. That's all
Josh Lavine 28:43
right, right, right, right, yeah, no, that's a beautiful way to say it. And by contrast, this whale feels heavy, yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the things that I'm tracking as you, as you are speaking is just like how you have a fascinating mind, and just way that you like an image comes to mind for me listening to you speak about how your mind works. It's like sort of folds of density that it's like, it's like burrowing into an idea and discovering that there are just rooms upon rooms upon rooms within this idea. It's like there's some little tear in the universe you, you sort of burrow into it, and there's like a whole kaleidoscopic infinity in there. And like, for example, the the anatomy of grief, as you said, and then that is a certain it exists in you is a certain question, and then I don't know, it multiplies into more questions. And you kind of follow those into some abstract. Exact artistic expression, which actually is actually abstract. Might not even be the right word, because there's a precision to it. It feels like you're kind of wrestling an idea to the ground, you know?
Yamira 30:11
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would say yes. I generally am trying to get to more clarity than I am trying to Wade and haze and yeah, yeah, that's not. I don't need, I don't want to just be suggestive. Granted, it might not always be fully legible to another party. That is also the case with art, unless you're being strictly illustrative, where it's like grief, and then someone's crying, and you're like, oh, okay, I guess that's kind of like, right, right, right? Not, not necessarily, but, but yes, and maybe I appreciate that. Yeah, I precision is, precision is something that I, you know, list of words I would that's a point to that.
Josh Lavine 30:56
What did you learn about grief through the process of making this art?
Yamira 31:06
Well, I can only speak about my understanding of grief is not a sort of totalizing theory, but yeah. Well, for one, just the stages of grief. There are stages, of course, and this is actually sort of in common language that people talk about the stages of grief. But I think what was interesting not so much in, you know, running through them in some systematic way, but in trying to, I wouldn't say, solve my grief, but in trying to finish the piece, I was coming up against this problem of I didn't want to relate. I didn't want to finish it. I just sometimes I just enjoyed if it was relating to it. It was just kind of like admiring and parts that felt good to relate to. But then there are other times where I was reminded of just how it felt. I felt, I felt a lot of shame about the experience and the loss of it was kind of striking. But anyway, and trying to find a way to just hold another resonance with the work, I realized, oh yeah, making, I'm making a piece of artwork like this is the whole point. So as I decided to start to create some like levity, or just like some lighter moments. It's like some something to enjoy the the experience of making this piece, or to art again. So I decided to be jewel parts of the the whale, and add a light source. And I was, I just started to spotlight the piece, like, suddenly wasn't cast down at the bottom of the ocean. I was like, well, actually, there, you know, light from the surface is penetrating through the the depths of the sea in which the whale is, even though this would never happen in real life, like the light can't reach the bottom of the ocean where these animals are. But I thought, this is still, this is art. I can transform this moment, and I can bring, I can bring our eyes are the spotlight. So let's cast this in the light. And then suddenly, because there was a light source, it occurred to me, let's Well, things can, you know, things can shine in the darkness. You know, they have a reflect, they can reflect back. So I thought, well, what more None, none more beautiful than, you know, the stars at night or jewels on a you know, bodies like suddenly, I started to see possibilities where it wasn't just a scene of decay and fragmentation and everything else that I had associated with death. When something is when something is gone, it's so we have such a negative cast of it. So I thought, well, in the space that is left, and the space that is left in the absence of this thing, something else can take its place. And maybe that's possibility. It could be light, it could just be lovely, like just something else can be in its place. And then that just reminded me, it's like, oh yeah. Like, this all my artwork, and then in all this, you know, my new ways of relating. I was so identified with that portfolio and a certain way of thinking of myself that I mean, even at the time when I lost I start, I picked up music. I was like different I allowed myself to relate to a different medium. And anyway, I learned from the piece in trying to resolve it that, yeah, it just you can have, like, a different stance towards a thing being no longer like you can have another you could, there could be another point of view taken with that thing, whatever it is in the in the in the context of that of anyone else's grief, it could emerge as something else, like a different something else to say about it. So in the in the absence of my portfolio, I made new work. And therefore it for me, in that piece, it's it's it struck me to talk about that in terms of light. It's like, no, there's light in this darkness. Yeah, and yeah, so I just, I added some, just beauty, some. I mean, I render things beautifully. This is my opinion. I render things beautifully. But I didn't. I didn't, it didn't, but it didn't feel good, and like the whole piece was about so I wanted to bring something that felt good. So I started, yeah, had a little bit more fun with it, and so that was my experience of coming to a resolution with with the piece, and maybe with my grief of it. Once I was done, I also, I finally cast it out. I let it go. I submitted it to a, you know, a grant for artists, and that's the first piece I've ever done what wife I've never submitted to shows I've never shown in a gal, yeah, so it's kind of like nice little moment of, you know, kissing a goodbye and, you know, with a little bow on top, not, not, not in, like this surrender with a white flag. Here's this, like, you know, my my sad Ode to, you know, my loss. But it was like, Here, here's a few like. And I say this about the work. Here's a funerary display. It's, it's a it's not just the body and the casting, it's the flowers on them. And I give it to the world.
Josh Lavine 36:14
I think that's so beautiful. I'm struck by there's like a triumphal redemption. It's like there's a redemptive arc to this thing. And I can't help but think about the piece that you referenced before about the chrysalis and the butterfly, which is one of my favorite metaphors of all time. But you have undergone a metamorphosis regarding this, and that's that's quite remarkable. So I guess you know, congratulations. How does it feel?
Yamira 36:42
Yeah, well, it didn't feel good for a very, very long time. So even so, not even even, but especially to share this with you and anyone and everyone and anyone. No, it feels, it feels really great, like it's nice to feel proud. It's that pride I on the you know, this was pride and shame are on the same coin. It's like, yeah, so not that pride needs to be the overwhelming sense, but it's that's a nice place to come from as well. It's really, really lovely to hear you recognize that I that this has come to a place where I can have a little bit more acceptance of acceptance about my path, the reality of the moment that I am in, and also, yeah, maybe the future as well. Like it does feel good, yeah,
Josh Lavine 37:33
yeah. And not to be super three about this. But what are you doing now? You know, moving on. Like, yeah, yeah, no. But like, Seriously, what's happened? I mean, what's emerging now, having, having submitted this, and in this, in the from the void that your art comes from, or whatever place it, you know, the source, or something like that, what's emerging? Well,
Yamira 37:58
in truth, part of my one thing I must I recognized in working with a restaurant was that I love making art, but I think I need to be with people on some level. I can't just be in my studio and work and think that will satisfy and I don't know I got this. I got this understanding another, maybe another epiphany. At one point actually wasn't epiphany. It was through many, many conversations with friends, and it was very difficult to accept. But then I realized that I need to engage. I want my I realize I want my art to be in service. I want? Yeah, I do. I want my art to be in service of helping people, whether it's just because they think it's beautiful and it just brings them light and life to just like relate to it, or it actually does help them on some deeper level than whatever that is. But then I recognize that that's going to come and for my personality type, it's more of a one on one, like, I don't know if I'm due for the stage, but I tattooing is the next stop. I realize I can preserve my my hand. I can continue to draw. I can continue what I do precise, like the precision and that control that I have and that medium that I like being in that control, I realize I recognize that tattooing, while very different world, satisfies the sense of making art for as a living for living, and not having to chase shows or commissions and or gallery and having gallery representation, how you know, however nice that is, and I do not want to, I will not negate these things coming into my life, if they should, but on a very practical level and a very grounded level, I do enjoy talking to people, the one on one. Just feel. Is, really, I don't despise it. It's quite nice to go there with someone, and I get to draw. So, yeah, that's the next step. Is to develop a portfolio and tattooing and to bring what I do to the human canvas.
Josh Lavine 40:16
Yeah, yeah. Let's see. I i think this like humanitarian bent you have in your work, like the that you want your work to be like of service to something, or to be a gift, or to be a like, a help or an uplift, or something like that to people. Am I capturing it right to you? Yeah, yeah.
Yamira 40:44
Beauty, beauty, inherently, I think, helps people so in a very sort of like in that way, apart from the message I have in any of those things, yes, I would say yes, and yeah. And sometimes I want work to be instructive. I do want people to be able to read into to have it sent that there's meaning. I do, and I do, yeah, I don't want it to be I don't disagree. I guess it's I feel somewhat defensive about. It's kind of, it's interesting to try and encapsulate. You know what you want your work to do, but I guess it's true. I do want it. I do want it to help people that's, that's
Josh Lavine 41:22
a fascinating what's defensive, what's the, yeah, what's, what is that? What's going on there?
Yamira 41:27
It's just because I'm not, because it's not like, the, it's not a like, a large motivating factor. It's like, right? I want, I wanted to also help people, but that's not the why I but I would also like, maybe perhaps it's
Josh Lavine 41:44
Sure, okay, yeah, fascinating, and so and tattooing. I mean, what strikes me about tattooing is that it's a profoundly intimate experience, you know, to to draw on somebody in a permanent way and to be drawn on, and there's something about that moment that feels particularly, yeah, like intimate, you know what I mean? What's your relationship with that? Like the just the connection to that person. And and actually, there's a few things that are going on for me about that. Will you take kind of requests from people to draw what they want on their bodies? Are you going to sort of draw what you want on their bodies? Do you have a sense of, yeah, like the creative impulse of it. And you get kind of the question I'm asking,
Yamira 42:44
yeah, no, totally, yeah. I mean, I do want to say, in my in the most ideal of worlds. Well, that's saying on the most ideal of worlds. I guess I would want to be someone would go, I have an idea. And I, ultimately, I would be, be at the helm of the, you know, the ship that, rather I would be, I would be, decidedly the person who decides what that looks like. But when you're doing tattooing, it's, it's, it's fundamentally a collaborative experience. It's two people coming together to create something new, and it's fun, and it should absolutely come from that person who I'd be working with. It's their idea and and they might have and the thing is, a lot of people, if they're not artists themselves, they still have really good ideas. They just might not know how to articulate it, and especially on their own bodies. So my my sense of is, yes, my style. I would like to preserve my style. I have a unique style, and I think if anyone wants to work with me, they would want some way to capture what I do uniquely onto them. But I, I think, no, I'm I'm always stunned, and when I'm talking to people and creatively, if you allow them to run with it, or even if they're just telling a story about their life, their life, there's so many moments that I don't have to be the unique author of where they're coming from to think that's a great idea, or that's a cool story. So I just think if, so long as it's in my studio, or I'm the one who you know if I get to decide I don't have it, no one else is my boss. It's just me and this person, and we have this agreement that you they trust that I will be able to deliver, deliver both technically and also that they can trust that I can ensure that we're going in a direction that's legible and it's beautiful, that they will be happy at the end, and then I can, of course, trust that they're I mean, I don't want to. It's not a I don't need to. It's not a I don't need to look into someone's past. I don't need to know who they are to give them. Hoping that would make them happy or make them feel whole or more at peace like I think I can afford that to almost anyone don't want to be too, too. Let's see strict about who I collaborate with. There are maybe some personalities. Maybe it would be very difficult to but in my ideal world, the one on one, the intimacy of that, the context, is, we're making a work of art. It's for you. How can I help you get there? Let's make it so that we're both happy in the end. And that would, that'd be a nice sort of meeting place for all parties, where I if apart from the art that I make for you need for myself and that other people want also, without ever telling me where it's, you know, coming from. When I come down, I come to, you know, sit down with someone at that point I can. I don't, I don't need any more power in the equation, besides, to be at service. Thought that I'm happy enough with that
Josh Lavine 45:59
cool it strikes me to ask, What's it like for you to talk about yourself at length like this, and your kind of process and art? Does it? Does this come naturally to you? And do you do this often, or is this kind of rare? Yeah,
Yamira 46:18
I don't. I don't, actually, this is why I'm doing this. It's not, I don't do this. It's not a great i I don't generally take stage and but I recognize how malformed of a personality one can be if they're not. I mean, I investigate, I'm in touch with myself, i i I engage my own mind, and I I try, I attempt to honesty, and I challenge myself to to to both identify my values and to commit to them. I try to do all these things for myself as it relates to other people in the world. I don't always see the need, but I'm recognizing that the world might you know, other people might want to, they could benefit from knowing me and how I approach reality. They can enjoy it, and I can enjoy that relationship back that it's not, it's something in the past, I just didn't, and I just had no natural affinity to wanting, wanting to, I didn't care. But I appreciate being I appreciate being recognized for things. And anyway, now it's more to talk about myself, is it's just, it's very interesting, and in these conversations can be very enlightening, and it could be funny. It could be a lot of things that I should just allow permit.
Josh Lavine 47:49
Can you talk about the not caring when you were a kid? Like, just more texture of that? Like,
Yamira 47:56
yeah, sure. Um yeah. I mean, frankly, I didn't like most people. I didn't, I didn't relate to most people. And so I never, never want, I never wanted to step out, and I rarely found that people I for, you know, the whatever energy I give. I think most people didn't find me very approachable, to be honest. Okay, so and then when it comes, yeah, so, speaking about yourself, like, I mean, I just never, I didn't. I didn't have a lot of faith in in others. I didn't care about the why. I remember, this is not, this is sort of, what is it? What are they saying? Humble brag moment when I was in high school, they, they're like, you're valedictorian with another girl. We were tied and I was like, Huh? And then they're like, You got to give a speech. Now you have to give a speech to your class. And I was the most like, no one, like the administration didn't like me. I was snubbed a few times at public events where I would have to be recognized as well, and I just Anyway, point in saying all this is when I finally had to give the speech, like, one of these moments where you, kind of, you take your Let's see your viewpoint and where you're coming from. Like, it's important, all of a sudden, to other people, in this large, grand way, to start doing that. And I remember, I It's not that I wasn't eager for the responsibility and the glory of it. I didn't. I didn't care about that at all. That's I mean, I don't this. What do I care about? I didn't care. It wasn't a negative. Not caring. In some ways, I found people, you know that they don't always, you can't always respect people. But I realized in that moment with the speech, I could care about them. I do care about people. So to be self conscious, I've I stepped up into realizing, well, I respect what I have to say about things, if, if reality and the circumstances that present, it presents a. Self wants me or invites me to share my sort of my my view on reality or myself, then why not? Because I think it's in I'm coming from a place that I like to come from, and therefore I did. So. I took it. I was very, let's see, gracious about the opportunity, I came up with a heartfelt speech. There's a really fun story about that where I was basically also snubbed in by one of the administrators, and they didn't even call my name up to say the speech, because she has somewhere, yeah, she did that. Okay, anyway, yeah. But the end of the story is, I go up to the stage slam my little book where I was going to give the speech, and at the end, I still say the speech, because you look out and you're like, people, so yes, I care enough that There's, there's like, not utility, there's, there's good in being and sharing and sharing, there's good in sharing. And apparently there's a reason to share people. I recognize there's a reason I should share things. And so I've, I've just been trying to come out and see and agree just, just try to see that point of view too, right?
Josh Lavine 51:22
There's this theme running through your life, it seems, of the there's some kind of, like, tension you're working with around like, it's good to share, but the counter pole of that is like, why would you or, a tendency towards like, it's almost like there's some natural tendency towards not sharing that you're overcoming, and kind of working yourself up to be like, You know what? Yeah, I should do this. I should I should make the speech. I should write something. I should make this art that has myself in it or something like that, yes, yeah, yeah. And that thing that you're overcoming is something I'm interested in. And would you even use that language to the overcoming language? Or No?
Yamira 52:14
Definitely, yeah, yeah, yes, definitely. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what, I have to bet like it does stir me to think about my childhood and being rejected, basically like my dad rejected me, like very supremely, and my family basically rejected me. And so you start to get very, I mean, my mom, she's very like,
Josh Lavine 52:47
Yeah, well, to the extent that you're willing to share, what does that mean? Like you're Oh, and
Yamira 52:54
we rejected you. Well, sure, my dad wanted, well, I was like, my dad's like, a really weird person, but he wanted a boy. And I can't, I'm not a boy. They, they cut my hair really short at one point, like little boy style when I was growing up. And anyway, my brother, when he was born, had, like, just immense affection thrown onto him. And we were very poor. And just, just when someone doesn't care about you, and they make it very explicit through them not showing you much affection at all, or giving you you know, the standard ways of showing whether it's your love language is through a giving or if your love language is through speech or with physicality, like I was not given that at all, basically from my father and my mom was we were all kind of like captured by his mental illness and problems. So she was kind of busy, like just trying to be like the breadwinner and stable. And so I felt, and I was basically I was always alone. I was not and not very much validated growing up. So when I we were really poor, so when I would be like, in like, after school programs or at school, like, I just, you know, kids, they can snuff out very quickly. If you're, if you're coming from a loving home, like, do you feel like, are you excited to be there? Are you happy? And it's like, no, I was not very happy, and I didn't have a lot of I didn't have I didn't look taken care of, basically, and that's no shame on my mother, you know, just I was a reflection of an unhappy home life, and I think I saw I was left outside a lot of kids. I was not garious enough to breach the boundary between self and other, and they were uninterested in doing the same. And so I decided to build myself up basically, and I was more self interested in my mind and where I could go with it than in trying to be with other people, as I was shown very early. On the same with my family, because I didn't at my extended family, because I didn't adhere to we were just like, I was just more of a black sheep, just space line. And I said I didn't want to speak the way that they spoke. I didn't. I didn't care about having fun with them. I just, I kind of rejected. I felt rejected in some ways, and I so I rejected back, and it was kind of like, that's it so sort of streamlined, a sense of not wanting to engage with the world unless it was, like, academically later on, yeah, academically or creatively. It was only through like, very certain avenues that I was really in touch with people? Yeah, of course, I had some friends, but I wouldn't say I was. I've never, I've been a loner, like most of my life, yeah,
Josh Lavine 55:49
and, and now, still kind of a loner,
Yamira 55:53
um, you know, I do love my friends. I being an adult now and being more powerful, like just being able to choose where you can go and yeah, you know, but just just being Yeah or enthroned, I I see people once in a while. I don't need to see people, and I think I have a healthy sense of my personal life and my friendships, although I could, if to be really honest, I could do a lot better and keeping in touch with him, like one of these, or whatever, all that. But in person, yeah, in person, every I love my friends and in person I'm great. But yeah, I'm very I do my own thing, yeah,
Josh Lavine 56:37
right? Just to give a relative sense of it, like, what is this? What is your social life? Or like, how often do you see people, or what kind of stuff do you do with them? I know you're in a band, for example. Yeah,
Yamira 56:48
the band's cool, that that's social. It's like, the most social I've been in a while, because you have to, you have to practice, you have to come together every week. It's like, whoa, week. Holy shit. Yeah. Good thing is like, we sometimes our friends are reflection of us, you know, like they're a lot of my friends are like me. They're they have their they're alone like so I could say this, like, infrequent is the word, and when we do hang out, I like to, I try to meet people where they're on. I if they wanted to back in the past, if they wanted to go see music, let's do it. If they're when you only want to chat, all right, let's do a bar. Now that I'm opened up to bar culture, I'm like, Okay, fine. It's not, it's not a bad way to lose some time and money.
Josh Lavine 57:42
Okay? Yeah. But
Yamira 57:44
yeah, personally, it's like, yeah. I've now taken to, let's do dinners. Let's, like, nourish ourselves on two fronts, still talk. Or, you know, again, it's, I have my friends come from varied kinds, and I just try to meet them where they're at and but it is infrequent. And, yeah, that's what I could say about that. A lot of my friends are artists or musicians, almost like exclusively, it seems, or they, they're, they're people who are like a sense of they, they labor in very, let's see sophisticated ways, like they're the people in my life. I believe they've they've either achieved a sense of, Well, they've either achieved and have success, or they're extremely self in tune. And that is quite like, that's quite an achievement itself.
Josh Lavine 58:40
So this meeting now of self and other that you sort of, I guess the word is resisted early on and have found ways to bridge in later adult life. What's it like for you to meet an other?
Yamira 59:02
Some sometimes I think this is funny. It's a funny answer. I have, like, a sort of this felt sense that we're all aliens, like you're not the same kind of species as I am, like you're an alien. Like, sometimes that's just my way of reconciling how profound the experience of meeting someone new is. To say, yes, they are, they're like this grand other thing, then they are not composed of the same parts. But I, again, I fundamentally, I give people a space. I like people, I give them warmth. Because we've I've man suffering is so consistent in existence that you you. It's you. I do my utmost to be patient and open to that party after that point, though, once you know, people start to really reveal themselves, you know, give them a little bit of time the other you know. There not you want to bring more intimacy in the other I've been apparently, I've been told that I delight in going into shocking things. I delight in shocking and going there,
Josh Lavine 1:00:16
meaning, like, what, like, what, I
Yamira 1:00:20
guess I'm not afraid. I'm not I'm afraid. I'm not afraid to have implied conversation, or have be a little to go into topics that are a little strange, or to be, I guess that topics, because I'm not, I'm not so revealed. I'm not so let's see I have. We all have our social base, I suppose. But I guess I try to approach people with who they are, where they're coming from. This is why I'm where I'm coming from. And if anyone starts to act any more like a caricature of an idea that it could have about them, I let them render that caricature out. Because you that's to be very fair to that person as well, is to go, Okay, you want to be this, then this, this is who you want to be right now. Might not be who you are. I give you the opportunity to show who are and to relate, and let's have fun, and let's make the most of the moment. Or, you know what some people tend to do, and at that point, then that's when the Okay, fine, look, now you're an object of my attention. You're no longer fully there. Yeah,
Josh Lavine 1:01:29
that's interesting, that you're tracking that. I think that's a social thing, maybe even double the social sexual because I'm tracking in a certain way that as well as a social type, like, how behind your eyes, are you in a certain way, or how, how congruent is are, is your self presentation to your actual inner content? Yeah, it's interesting to me, because there's a way that you are evaluating how maybe the word is safe it is to kind of walk across the bridge to the other, or how interesting it is, or compelling or worth it, it is, you could say. And I think that also belongs in the same conversation as what you you sort of had a throwaway comment earlier, like it's you can't respect everyone you know. And is, I mean, yeah, are those two comments in the same ballpark for you. Well, this thing
Yamira 1:02:27
with wanting to be intimate, you mean, with relating or, yeah,
Josh Lavine 1:02:33
let me just lay out, like, my whole where I'm at, like, what I'm tracking, it's you have this whole journey from being a like feeling rejected and like a black sheep of your family, and basically, like not really having the social desire to bridge the gap between self and other. And you have this highly intricate and dense and highly populated inner world of cerebral ideation that manifests itself through your art. And you could be very comfortable just kind of hanging out in your own head with all that content, but both through your art, literally becoming a tattoo artist and meeting an other, yeah, literally drawing on their skin. And not just drawing on their skin like some abstract thing, but something that's personal to both you and them, which is a very intimate form of meeting. And also this like it seems like there's a real journey, like you've traveled a distance and are continuing to travel that distance from kind of isolation to intimacy, is one way to put it, and that's happening through art. It's happening through relationships. And there's a way that you're tracking how much intimacy is available in this moment with this person, or something like that based on how behind their eyes they are, and into that kind of cauldron or theme I was dropping the idea of, sometimes you can't respect people.
Yamira 1:04:11
I that throw away of, sometimes you can't respect people comes from, I think my, my way of kind of preserving my See, my feelings about being comfortable in a situation and putting it on that person. It's like, well, you know, I see how it is,
Josh Lavine 1:04:29
which is a rejection thing, object relations talk, yeah,
Yamira 1:04:33
yeah. That's so I not that. I gripe. I feel a little not, yeah, I guess look a little embarrassed for a minute. But that is like, I see, okay, that's, that's a place where I can go. But the journey, if to go back to the journey, is to, I Yeah, to meet people, to exchange, to have as much merriment in this present moment as we can, still respecting where we're coming from, like this. Of like, grand sense of let's make the best of it, the most of it. Yeah, but not being a but not being a clown. I'm not here. I'm not here to make that I'm not here to make that person happy. It's can we enjoy ourselves? Am I enjoying myself? And if not, then it will be as necessarily intimate as you know, as it needs to be, it doesn't have to breach any other level of that. I can we can go there if we're both consensually going there, but I'm not here to play the Joker, or, for that matter, the the helper or I don't need to be the star like I don't need to sort of fulfill roles for my ego or that other person to make us both like each other. It's great if we do, but I just hope we're always having, like, sort of the respect comes from, hey, we're in this moment right now. You're, you know, it's not great when people don't have the best hygiene. But hopefully if we're both like, you know, preserving the space and you know, it's just Okay, then let's see where we can go from there in an honest way,
Josh Lavine 1:06:02
yeah, yeah,
Yamira 1:06:07
which is more than the past, which is like, never even wanting to start now, I'm like, well, maybe there's something,
Josh Lavine 1:06:15
yeah, yeah. There's a way that I sense you being sort of always holding on to your eye when you enter a we space, if that makes sense, in a way that is different from attachment types, for example, where there's kind of a porousness or a tendency to diffuse. And so I'm just noticing that the other thing is, there's this way that, like you love merriments. Merriments is a word like, it's one of the, it's one of the words I've heard you use most often. Actually, there's a sense of, let's, let's have fun, you know, together, and that's really important to you. It seems to me that idea,
Yamira 1:07:04
yes, absolutely. How could you Yeah? Like, if Yeah, I
Josh Lavine 1:07:11
can roll off a lot. Yeah, go.
Yamira 1:07:12
Let's think about it. Well, I'll see this for myself. Maybe it all comes from childhood yet again, but I was really fucking depressed growing up. I didn't recognize that. I thought I just was. I thought I was like a cold and everything was in sepia, because reality, like, what was there? I didn't, I didn't know i There were a lot of idol I was very deprived and very alone. And so I thought my I thought the default reality had to come from. Well, you feel good only in certain ways. And then when I was sort of through, truly in sort of leaving high school and getting into college and being like on my own, and then suddenly not being sort of associated with anything I'd come from before, just finally, just having a blank slate. I remember someone told me, I'd never heard this. They were like, man, Jamara, you laugh a lot. You're so jolly. And I was like, oh, what? Really? And I was like, Oh, I guess they're right. I do like laughing and, you know, having fun and being frolicking in nature. Because I finally was in nature, so in sort of the freedom I began to have as being an adult, and also through, I would say, the introduction of psychedelics, honestly, really shaped a little bit. That's funny, yeah, I think the structure of my brain and what I was willing to relate to, yeah, I think it's so I just, yeah, I want, I mean, art should be fun. Or rather, you go to it because you're hopefully having a decent time, like, enjoy the enjoying of art. There's there. And then if you're eating food, you hopefully are enjoying eating the food. And if you're in a space, if you're sensitive to that space, it better feel good. If the space or have a sensuousness that is lived through, and it, you know, you're like, oh, that I like those colors in that room. And same with people, if you're in a conversation with them, you're either going, Wow, what that that's so interesting, or that's hilarious, or that's, you know, we're going, we're, you know, harrowing experience. It is. It has to be like, this intense, gratifying thing. And if it's not, it's like, sucks. But then meditation, the you know, the simplicity of this moment, not always needing to be entertained, but entertainment is, yeah, it's like medicine I'm
Josh Lavine 1:09:37
hearing, or, yeah, I'm hearing what you're saying, partly through like, social, sexual lens of, I mean, that's like a sort of merriment stacking with the one fix, like a certain a shouldness to it, you know, like, uh, yeah. We should be, yeah. We, you know, like this, this is how we should be reacting and interacting with each other in life. Yeah,
Yamira 1:09:58
yeah. No, I agree with that. No. I. Right? Well, having, you know, what can I say? I'm not, I don't. I wouldn't go to I wouldn't go as far as to say I am wise. But having, I'm up to this point in existing so far that any other way of being has proven not as beneficial to my well being or anyone else's. I've not seen in other ways of existing where it's like, no, it's okay. It's let's choose plasticity and not taking risks and or let's, you know comfort. Comfort is great as a as if it is the if comfort is the floor off which we jump off to enjoy other things, like you can't I do not prioritize whatever else other people, whatever like. Let's see stoicism in a flattening way. No, not interesting enough. That's great, but I don't think we need to go that far so. But I'm also, like, pretty hyperactive. So maybe my, the way that my heart likes to beat, that's a, it's a resonant with being married, it beats really quickly, so maybe yes, physiological, yeah,
Josh Lavine 1:11:08
um, well, okay, so what has this been like for you to be interviewed like this?
Yamira 1:11:16
Well, you're great, so
Josh Lavine 1:11:19
I feel the same about you. Yeah, sick,
Yamira 1:11:22
well, so the rapport is like that that would vastly decrease or improve, you know, well, how I feel about this. So that's very fun. That's great. That helps. Secondly, I've always noticed this about myself, or I'm beginning to realize it more. I think one can have anxiety about speaking about themselves or being put on the spot, right, right? Yeah, some people deal with that differently, or everyone deals with that differently rather. And the way that I'm realizing about myself is I deal with it by just focusing on what's happening instead of my instead of meta, analyzing it, and then, like, what is me doing in this moment? And how do I how this, you know, having various side conversations that grip and shift how a one would, how I would otherwise just relate to you as a person, like, I'm just here with you right now. And yeah, that that allows me to just feel comfortable. So I'm in the earlier part of our conversation when it had to deal with, like, what is it to be talking about yourself? Yeah, I think it was. It's interesting, and has been interesting, and I'm very I'm grateful for that opportunity to just think with you. Yeah,
Josh Lavine 1:12:39
me too. Yeah. Thank you for doing this. And actually, I wanted to ask, just in that same vein, I was thinking about this, kind of, why you said yes to doing this, and kind of, was there a journey to kind of get there? I guess there was just getting to know me, but Yeah, can you talk about that journey?
Yamira 1:12:55
Yes, well, if you recall, there was a bit of dragging my heels,
Josh Lavine 1:13:01
I don't know what you're talking about. Who
Yamira 1:13:05
knows that has to slip back in. I don't know someone else's story. Maybe they told me. So yes, there it's still a I will always I do. Always show up. I show up when I went, obviously, this is not like, so high stakes that I had to show up. It was an opportunity to, but, yeah, it was very hard to. It's still hard, but I enjoy it more and more. And I know it's kind of like going to the gym. It's like, it's a little bit of a drag to do these things that are good for you, and I think it's good to take account of who you are and to be and be comfortable with that on some level, to be able to articulate it. I think that is it's good practice, and I, you know, have to round back to, you know, your interests, like the Enneagram, it does. It provides a very interesting lens, and it could be a more useful lens, the more that one, you know, works with it. And I, yeah, so it's an opportunity for me to do the same. So I, I I just see this as like, sort of a continuation of this relationship I have with this school thought and the people who are involved with it in that matter.
Josh Lavine 1:14:32
Well, thank you for doing this, and thanks for your openness.
Yamira 1:14:34
I am very grateful. Thank you for the invitation this roles and no, you just I, I'm I look forward to, I look forward to seeing more of yours and to see more of myself.
Josh Lavine 1:14:45
Sounds good. Okay, thanks. Thank you so much for joining me for this conversation with jamira. Sarah. If you like her art and you'd like to check her out, then you can go to her website at mossy scabs.com she also has an Instagram by the same name. I'll leave links in the show notes. So that you can go check that out. If you are watching this on YouTube and you like the show, then please hit the like button and the subscribe button. It's a zero cost and very effective way to help support me and this content and the Enneagram school. And if you're listening to this as a podcast, then please leave up to a five star review, even if you don't write anything as part of the review, the stars really help. And I would love for you to check out our offerings at the Enneagram school.com we have a very important new offering about to drop, the first ever introduction to the Enneagram course that John La COVID and I are almost done with. If you'd like to receive updates about when that's going to be done, then please subscribe to our email list, which you can do on the home page of the school, which is again the Enneagram school.com when you subscribe to our email list, you also get access to our free nine types and one page Enneagram guide. I typically am not a fan of oversimplifying the Enneagram, but the Enneagram is very complex, and this is a really useful and easy at a glance way to just reorient yourself when you get lost, especially if you're new at the Enneagram and you want to just and you're trying to keep it all together. And finally, we have some other offerings. I am doing live coaching now. So I take a volunteer whose type is known, we figure out a topic that has some emotional heat for them, and they volunteer for me to coach them live in front of a zoom audience, so you can buy a ticket to watch me coach someone. And then there's a debrief. Second section, where we take questions and answers from the audience. By the time this is released, we'll have done the first one, and there will be a series of them. So if you'd like to receive updates about when those are so you can come check them out, then again, please subscribe to our email list. That's where we'll be announcing them. Finally, if you think that you are a good candidate for me to interview on the show, then please reach out. I am interested in interviewing people with high resolution interiority. Preference goes to people who have been officially typed by the [email protected] if you're not aware of enneagrammer, then I highly recommend you go check them out. I think that they are the world's experts in ennegram typing, and their distinctions are very good and very sharp. Okay, thank you again for joining me, and I'll see you next time
Unknown Speaker 1:16:54
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