Alex 0:00
I think a lot of people assume that one is they just want to be told they're doing a good job and be reassured, and it's just it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter like, of course, people will tell me, you're a great pet owner, or your writing is fine, or whatever. Doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. I don't care if I tell myself I'm doing a good job, or if other people I don't care about doing a good job. I care about not being physically agonized by what I'm witnessing.
Josh Lavine 0:33
Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of what it's like to be you. An Enneagram interview show. My guest today is Alex G A self press sexual type, one with a nine wing. Alex is relatively new to the Enneagram, but she's really come up with some cool language around her own inner experience in particular, in particular the way that she describes the somatic experience, one being a body type, and how that is somewhat neglected in the literature if you're new to the Enneagram, then there are a couple of orienting ideas I want to give to you up front here. First is the idea of tri fixation, which I spoke about in the introduction to episode two. So if you want to learn about that, go check that out. The second is that the Enneagram is there are nine types in the Enneagram, nine basic types, and there are a lot of different ways of splitting that into three groups of three that are really useful in terms of understanding what a type structure is and also for identifying type so there are the harmonic groups, meaning the competence types, the positive outlook types, and the positive and the emotional realness types. That's three groups of three, right there. There's also the object relations triads, which is there are three attachment types, three frustration types and three rejection types. There are the centers which there are three body types, three heart types and three mental types. And there are the hornibian triads, which are the assertive types, the withdrawn types and sometimes called the compliant types. I prefer the word conscientious the conscientious types. That's a lot of language, and it's a lot of mouthfuls, and in another episode, maybe I'll go into a more robust definition of what those are. But I just wanted to warn you, if you want to understand the language of the of this episode, then you might want to just go and quickly brush up on what those things are. I learned a lot from this conversation, and I'm excited for you to learn from Alex as well. So let's get into it. Welcome everyone to another interview. I'm here with Alex, who is a self presexual type one, one with a nine wing. Try fix 135, and Alex, couple things about you. You are living in Korea right now, and you primarily are a writer. And you, you are teaching for work. I understand. But also, as you just said, it's not really as much a part of your identity as writing is so writer. So that's we'll start there. My favorite question up front is, what's it like for you to be introduced?
Alex 3:06
It feels like you're talking about another person. That happens when I hear my name as well? It just doesn't really connect, but sounds like an interesting person.
Josh Lavine 3:21
Cool. Yes, I think I think she is. We'll see. So are you willing to share with us your Enneagram origin story? Sure,
Alex 3:29
I was introduced to the Enneagram in college, and I typed as a four, and my interest was pretty shallow, and I didn't really learn much about it. A few years ago, I think two years ago, I was a little more interested in it and interested in typing people in my life. But clearly there's still something that wasn't fitting, and I wasn't able to go deeper. I stumbled upon the Enneagram, or universe group through seeing some comments in the Enneagram four group, and upon going there, I was able to read some more accurate information, and I had a moment where I woke up and I was like, Oh, I'm a one. I'm not a four. I don't know how I ever thought that that was pretty clear. After I got typed, then I started to pay more attention to instincts as well. At first, that wasn't really the priority for me, but since then, I've just been interested in learning, and I find all of the recurring patterns in the Enneagram really fascinating. So. I'm always interested to uncover, like new bits of information about
Josh Lavine 5:07
it. Can you say what it was like realizing you were one and not a four?
Alex 5:16
Um, I think I obviously many one descriptions are just like, shitty and don't No one. No one identifies like that, like no one. No one thinks that they're that kind of person, like a really stuffy, like a stuffy, uptight kind of person, which I kind of am. No one's gonna read that and be like, Oh, that's me. And what helped me was understanding like triads and understanding that one is a like, super ego, competency, frustration, gut type, and the intersection of those points,
Josh Lavine 6:02
yeah, we're gonna get into that in some detail. Really curious to ask about competency and frustration and gut in particular. But when we talked yesterday, you had this really beautiful analogy, or like, felt sense experience of your oneness around this image of a tuning fork. Can you just share what that is, and what the experience of it is,
Alex 6:25
the experience in my body is, it's almost like I am one line, which is, I imagine it as some kind of tuning fork or some kind of metal rod or something that can detect resonance. And the rest of my body feels like just like useless flesh or something. And when I experience something that I am I comfortable with or that isn't right. There's this felt sense of something being dissonant and not in tune. If you've ever like listened to, like a string instrument or something tuning and trying to match that pitch just so it's just not quite there. I think, like many people who can resonate with that feeling, even if they're not ones, they know that feeling of like it's just not it's not how it's supposed to be, it's not quite there. And that's similar to a feeling that I will get for just about anything that is not how it's supposed to be according to whatever frequency my body is resonating at.
Josh Lavine 7:52
Yeah, this is such an evocative image, and I even in your face as you were describing it like that, cringe where it's not quite, it's, it's not quite on the frequency is, I mean, that's, that is the body responding to something, right? It's like, literally, a body like, like, it's not quite there, kind of tension, tensing against something that sounds or feels wrong internally. Do you have any other words or language that you have for yourself about your experience as a body type, or that that particular experience as a body type?
Alex 8:40
There's, I guess there's one more, like body experience that I've thought about before, which is, there's that dissonant, off feeling. And if that isn't fixed, there is this, like hot, cold, kind of electric energy that starts in this it's it's almost, it almost looks like a one, like numeral, I guess is how I feel in my body, and it kind of resonates this electric rage through the rest of my body. And whenever I experience anger, it It starts there, and it's like a reaction to that I think, um, those are, those are the two, like, the two body feelings that I've thought about the most. I think, interesting.
Josh Lavine 9:32
Okay, yeah, one of the reasons I ask up front about all this body stuff is that the I the notion of being a body type, or, first of all, I believe that we live in a body blind culture. For the most part. It's like when people say the intelligence of the body, it's like most people just scratch their heads and say, what are you what are you even talking about? What does that mean? And these felt senses that you're describing often get languaged in the form of metaphor. Or image or something like that. But it's really what it's pointing to is this subtle, or sometimes not so subtle, since sensory experience and yeah, so hot, cold, the feeling of being out of in or out of resonance, these are things that people can tune into in the in their own cells, whether or not throw one. So I just wanted to make that point kind of pedagogically. I
Alex 10:23
also think that like one as a gut type is the most uh, misunderstood or neglected part of many descriptions or understandings of one. I think why I agree? Actually, yeah, yeah, it becomes like this moral head ish kind of explanation of what people are witnessing, and everything becomes like what they think or what they want, and it's completely neglects the body experience of what a gut type is,
Josh Lavine 11:04
yeah. So one building off that point, one thing to say is that I agree a lot of descriptions I've read about once focus on the adherence to principle. And I think that's that is a very fair statement, but its origin points is not in the mind, it's in the body. And so principle, it's almost like a thing discovered through the stomach, or something like that. Um, you agree with that? Raising,
Alex 11:34
yeah, and it's often very like irrational and not doesn't make sense. And I think many people mischaracterize one as being, you know, really logical and having good arguments for what they think. And I just don't think that's generally true. I think one is going to have a gut feeling about it, and then that's just right. And they might, they might seek, I think at least for me, it might be because I'm heart second, but I will feel something first, that it's, you know, in tune or not in tune. Then I will use, like, the heart center and the emotional justification to kind of AMP up that feeling or justify that feeling, and last will be finding some verbal explanation through the head center. That's the lowest priority. And I think that is, yeah, not really mentioned in most descriptions.
Josh Lavine 12:41
Yeah, you're also pointing to this is kind of a deep cut. Any in nerd stuff. But in, in the wisdom of the Enneagram, there's this beautiful, I'm sorry, not the wisdom in the in the understanding the Enneagram by Don recently, there's this really great chapter towards the back where they talk about the arrangement of the centers and each of the types. And one is a body type that's bordering the heart sensor. And so it's body first supported and juiced up by the emotional sensor, the heart center, and then the heart the mental centers, in a sense, what is most out of sight, which is a strange description, given the way that ones are often characterized as this kind of, as these rational you might even say that ones are rationalizing, which is probably the better term, cool. I have a couple other questions, so I want to just get, like, ask you some questions, to kind of pull out some examples from your life of oneness to get get really tangible and, yeah, so why don't we start with um? Do you have any pet peeves?
Alex 13:53
Yes, I have a lot of room, huh? Um. I have so many that where to start. I have currently I can just, I can just spout off the current ones. My current biggest pet peeve is general disorganization and incompetence that that makes me not able to do my job well. So if other people want to be incompetent and ruin their own lives, that's fine, but if it inconveniences me, and they are not receptive to noticing that, it can be pretty irritating. I have many, many pet peeves around, I don't know if they're pet peeves or just like, really strong preferences around, like textures and smells and temperature. And things like that. So I'm I can be super irritable in the summer when it's hot, or super grumpy when it's cold, or if the humidity isn't quite right, I'll get upset about things like that.
Josh Lavine 15:14
Yeah, see some good self pres oriented stuff too. Yeah?
Alex 15:24
I also have quite a few pet peeves about, like, I think there's, I have a hard time drawing the line between, like, pet peeves and then things that seem really unethical and bad to me, but I like animals and pets are really important to me, and treating them well is really important to me. So seeing people not care for their pets properly is really angering to me, even if it's in kind of a just thoughtless kind of way, not, like, intentionally malicious. It's still really upsetting to me, and I almost, like, don't even have the bandwidth to expose myself to that a lot of the time, because I'm going to get upset. Like, for example, I have in the past, oh, I'll volunteer for, you know, a shelter or something so I can hang out with animals. Seems fine, but I get, I get too upset and annoyed at what I perceive as kind of negligence or incompetence in how the animals are cared for, so I end up having to remove myself from that situation if I don't want to go insane. So there's a lot of instances like that.
Josh Lavine 16:51
Yeah, yeah, when you get let's, let's talk about frustration and and anger. And I'm curious. So there you are in that situation, uh, kind of getting worked up. Like, how does it work in you? Like, what do you what specifically are you noticing that starts the inner engine and then, yeah, like, almost the narrative of it like you show up at to volunteer. You're like, you're like, I've decided I'm going to do this thing today and go volunteer. That'll be nice. And I mean, even the decision to volunteer has a one ish flavor. And then there you are at this thing. So then what happens?
Alex 17:40
Yeah, I mean, like this even happens if I try to do something fun, like, like, go to a bar or something I, like, I was saying before, I think it starts with this body feeling that I don't have words for yet, and I don't even have an emotional name for yet. But it's just this that irritated like no, something's not right here, that irritation will trigger either probably like irritation or being upset or being annoyed, depending on what it is, by then, I'll probably have done something about it. I'll have stepped in or kind of taken that situation onto my shoulders, even if I don't realize it, and eventually I will form some narrative about it. Um, these people are incompetent. These people are bad. This shouldn't be happening. What can I do? Should I do blah, blah, blah, blah, and maybe making sense of things that way. But that's definitely more of an afterthought in the moment. It's just, it's not right, and I'm doing something about it, and I'm upset. And later I try to process, like, what exactly I was doing,
Josh Lavine 19:07
yeah, how quickly do you jump to doing something about it? Pretty fast. Um,
Alex 19:18
yeah, I like, I have gotten myself into trouble for kind of just acting when I feel it's justified. There's times that I you know, like one is one does hold itself back, but it's pretty I don't have to think about it like, if I feel that anger, it's almost like the angers existence justifies itself, which means I have to do something about it. So I'm I do something usually very calmly and very coldly, and I don't overreact, but I. I'm doing something, because that's my response. Like, I don't know if it's competency or what it is, but it's I've noticed it, and therefore I feel obligated to do something about it.
Josh Lavine 20:12
Yeah, what happened? What would happen if you didn't do something?
Alex 20:19
Um, I think I would just get more and more upset until I would have to do something or leave or something. Yeah,
Josh Lavine 20:26
I guess what I'm getting at is the doing something is a is a kind of release fail for the building frustration. Yeah, and I
and partly where this is going, I think, is, we talked in our previous conversation about this beautiful word grief, with respect to one, and this is sort of leading, but I'm curious if this is right on target. It's there's a sense of if, if you didn't do something, then it would put you back in contact with some unspeakable grief that would just be unbearable. And so doing something as a way of, kind of protecting against that. So I feel right to you, yeah,
Alex 21:17
I think there's a sense of, if I do something, it gives a sense of control and of like possibility of change or impermanence of that situation where I think What is very scary to me is eternal, like grief or eternal dissonance or eternal imperfection, like the concept that it cannot change and my efforts are not going to do anything. So acting, even if it's just like I think about that metaphor of like the person standing in the sinking boat and scooping buckets of water out of it, even though everyone else is already on the shore. But it's the act of scooping the water that makes it feel like it's worth something, and ignoring the inevitability of sinking. Uh, huh, yeah,
Josh Lavine 22:24
because the inevitability of sinking can actually, let me say this way, what is the subject of your grief? Like you can get in touch with it. Are you willing to even get in touch with it now to
Alex 22:39
speak about it? Um, it's it's feeling like there's a sense of like I am really a mismatch for this world and whatever I was supposed to exist in. It's not this and this just this overwhelming sense of it's not how it's supposed to be. And a lot of times, well, I think maybe, like 1% of the time, I can access this little moment like a high of that's how it's supposed to be, right there. That's exactly what I'm looking for. And grief immediately follows because it's so temporary, but because I had found it one time, it's impossible for me to not go after it again. So the rest of my time is spent, at least for me, through my dominant instinct, trying to create an environment to allow that perfect, sacred feeling to happen again. So anytime that that's not happening, there's sadness, knowing, knowing what it could be, and accessing tiny moments of that, but most of the time, being denied that, I think, is what causes a lot of sadness.
Josh Lavine 24:19
Yeah. Do an example of a moment of perfection.
Alex 24:25
Um, it could be, for me, it's like, there's like little creative or artistic things that can cause that feeling, like hearing this perfect moment in a song, or, like, see, this is so silly, but like seeing my cats paw, like with sun on it, or something like that, it's just feels so pure to me and I. Uh, it's really, it's not usually like a big, drawn out thing. It's like little, teeny, tiny details. And when I'm in a better state of mind, I can find those a little more easily. Um, when I'm maybe in a more negative side of one, it's feels like it's not there, I can't find it, which makes me more and more and more frantic and fixated on trying to find it. But yeah, it's really it's really like, for me, at least it's not like grand moments of like universal perfection. It's just tiny little things that they just snap to the right tune, and it's very satisfying.
Josh Lavine 25:50
Yeah, I would love to explore your self preservation dominance and how that emerges with oneness. And I guess what I'm curious about is how your oneness shows up in the, yeah, just in this, in the realm of self preservation. Like, can you give can can you be concrete? Like, is, is your house arranged in a particular way for certain things? Or, like, when you eat stuff, is it like a very particular kind of food, or just, or take me even out of the stereotype of stuff? Or, like, how do you how do you how do you experience your oneness with self?
Alex 26:23
Pros? I mean, it is a stereotype. My house is very clean and organized. I want it to be. I have a particular focus on, like, creating an environment to be in which most of the time is like my house, and I want it to have this perfect element of creativity and coziness and whatever. Uh, aside from that, I a lot of it is about how I'm spending my energy and my time, especially as I think triple competency plays a role in that as well. Yeah, am I? Am I maximizing every second to feed the machine in order to be to kind of craft this lifestyle so that I can create those little moments of godhood that I mentioned before, so that can concern like sleep and health and my job and all those sorts of things too, because I am social last the concept of including social in that limited time span feels like a threat on my self pres like it's going To open me up and suck me away from what feels really, really important, which is that daily kind of self management. So, yeah, I mean, especially right now my my life is really, really small. It always has been very contained. And
Josh Lavine 28:27
by small You mean your social life is small, or your what social
Alex 28:33
life just how I spend my time. And because of COVID, I guess as well, I have become even more like introverted than I used to be so my house and my cats and my health and my like daily life and my writing and stuff, that's like 90% of my energy goes towards things like that.
Josh Lavine 29:04
Yeah. Um, this is amazing to me. I mean, partly in contrast to just you and me, Me as a social dominant three, my experience as a social type is, is that the the kind of hungry ghost, like I don't have enough of social intimacy or social contact, like, that's where I get fussy, is is feeling lonely, or if the interaction doesn't go well, or something like that. And I'm curious about fussiness instinctually in the self pres range and with the one lens, yeah,
Alex 29:40
I'm fussy about everything. But I mean, like, social doesn't feel important at all. So it's like, what? What else? What could be more important than making. My house clean. It's it's to explain, like, why something is important when that's my my reality. I think a lot of it is like what I want to do, especially with my writing and what I want to curate for my my cats, to have the best life possible, since they're like my they're like the only thing I have to be responsible for, other than myself. Um, curating that environment to be as good as it can be feels very important. I can't just, I can't just sit in a in a house with dust on a shelf and write a book. I can't sit in a bright room with ugly curtains and write a book. I just can't do it. So it feels like I can't unlock my muse until everything is really specifically settled.
Josh Lavine 31:11
The pets thing is really interesting, too, from the point of view of I love this word godhood that you're putting here. It's kind of like, man, you can really control the environment of your
Alex 31:21
pets? Yeah, it's terrible. It's terribly stressful to be responsible for things.
Josh Lavine 31:33
But yeah, yeah, um, the burden of responsibility is an interesting phrase, probably for ones. And I'm curious about, like, even your reaction there, it's terrible. What do you mean?
Alex 31:49
I mean, it's it's wonderful. And clearly, it's wonderful because I, I will never not have pets, but it's part. Part of it is last year I was going through a bout of OCD, and I think that's, I think any type can struggle with OCD and have similar feelings about that burden of responsibility, but the way my type reacted to that, it was focused on my cats and their well being, and it was almost like a microcosm, or like really concentrated, ridiculous version of What I already deal with taking care of them. It's it's feeling like you're the only one that knows how it's supposed to be. You're the only one that cares enough to do it. You're the only one who can do it. Therefore you have to do it. And the standard for how it's supposed to be. It doesn't matter what other external people you know or sources say. It doesn't matter. It only matters if I feel it's good enough or how it's supposed to be. And those standards get more and more specific, like that, tuning gets more and more narrow, and it sometimes gets to the point where I am not like actively enjoying my pets or any of my you know, responsibilities that I normally love, because the pressure is so high. It's the same with writing. The pressure of meeting my own standards is so ridiculous, but there's no other like option. It feels like sometimes,
Josh Lavine 34:02
yeah, yeah. So, man, what helps with that?
Alex 34:07
Um, well, the OCD, I got treatment for, and I can, I definitely saw, like improvement with that. Like I said, that's, that's separate from the type, but sure still i There's a part of me that I don't I don't want to help that, I don't want to lessen that, that would feel inauthentic or just feels Impossible. Why would why would I want to, you know, take worse care of my pets or write bad things? It doesn't make sense to me. So I have a lot of resistance against lowering standards or anything like that. Um. Yeah, I think a lot of people assume that one is they just want to be told they're doing a good job and be reassured, and it's just it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter like, of course, people will tell me, you're a great pet owner, or your writing is fine, or whatever. Doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. I don't care if I tell myself I'm doing a good job, or if other people I don't care about doing a good job. I care about not being physically agonized by what I'm witnessing. And in that way, yeah, it's not really about morality or feeling like I'm good or bad. It's just like I can't stand it. I have to get out of this, this disgust feeling of everything that's wrong.
Josh Lavine 35:58
That was really evocative. I wonder too how much being social blinds calcifies this. It doesn't matter what people say, kind of thing like I just this is more of a theoretical thing, because we don't have a social one in front of us to ask. But I wonder if social dominant one would be more open to receiving the reassurance of someone else, whereas for you as self presexual, it's like, I mean, what other people say already doesn't matter, and then add one on top of that. You know,
Alex 36:31
yeah, I don't know, I'd be interested in that too, but I think, like, because I don't think anyone is looking for any one, I mean, is looking for reassurance, like that's going to help. I don't, I don't think it's going to make a big impact, regardless of the stacking, but maybe, maybe they feel supported, or something. Sure,
Josh Lavine 36:57
sure. Yeah. I like that distinction. I agree. What's your relationship with fun? Fun, yeah, fun, fun and pleasure. What's that?
Alex 37:15
Um, what's my relationship with fun. I guess it depends on how you define fun. There's things that I enjoy doing. I enjoy like playing video games or whatever, playing with cats. I don't enjoy fun for very long, because after a while, it's not fun. It's, it's it's like,
it's a feeling of, okay, I need to be doing something. This this isn't, this isn't like what I'm looking for in life. And as I mentioned earlier, even something that's fun for most people is plagued with like being irritated at things. And like, for example, recently, I went out to like this pub crawl, which is so I don't even I don't even know I did that, but anyway, it's so not me. I can't even say those words, because it's so anyway, I was trying to, like, make friends, I don't know, but I, I was, like, so irritated with everything, like people having fun, and all I could see was like, Oh, that that girl is getting harassed by some guy, and no one is doing anything. So I go over and I have to take care of her and buy her water and get her home, things like that. Like there's always something upsetting. And a lot of times what, what I think is perceived as fun, as fun, to me, just looks like being blind to like important things that are happening and things that are clearly wrong or just gross or just boring. So I think I have fun in my own very specific way with my own very specific hobbies. And outside of that, it is hard.
Josh Lavine 39:58
I'm wondering, is there any place. In your life, including in some of the things that you just mentioned, that is a refuge from this what seems to be oppressive responsibility, obligation.
Alex 40:13
Yeah, I think the only refuge is my home when it is organized well and to my liking, then I feel like I can relax. Yeah, I usually around people. It's just tiring. And sometimes, if I like go in nature, like go to the beach or something. I don't have super ego about whether the waves are the right size or something. It's not around people and it's not around it's usually not around something that I like doing, which is kind of sad. So, yeah,
Josh Lavine 41:09
yeah. And, okay, let's talk about writing for a second. And I'm super curious about this as a from the point of view of being a triple competency type and leading with a super keto type. So first of all, what do you write about, and why is writing so important to you? And then what's the process like for you?
Alex 41:32
I write I I've written like since I was a kid, and I have written short stories, and I'm working on a couple of novels as well. The genre is just all over the place. I don't know. I'm gonna wait till I finish the book and then make some social DOM person pick what the genre is, because I don't know, but I I just like interesting things that are not quite in line with any particular genre. Like, I like taking a genre and kind of twisting it and making a different um, so what did you say? What do I write about? And what's the second question?
Josh Lavine 42:19
It was something like, yeah, what do you write about? Why? Why is writing important too? And, and the process, yeah, um,
Alex 42:28
it's, I think just creating a story and playing with words is just very satisfying to me and gives me a kind of thrill that other activities don't I'm I'm good at it, which is, I've been, like, told I've been good at it for a long time. And part of that is the three fix, I think, is attaching to this thing that I'm good at, but, like the worst of times, it is just attaching to it because I'm good at it and I have to do it. But the best of times, it's I genuinely enjoy it, and it gives me it just is satisfying, and I can kind of create little moments that are that make me satisfied. I don't know it's Yeah, little mini playground to satisfy that tuning fork.
Josh Lavine 43:37
Yeah, you're, you're flirting dangerously close with kind of funny.
Alex 43:42
It sounds like well, then the next question. I had fun with writing until I was about 16, and since then, it's been off and on, fun and anguish. I as you could imagine, I'm very much a perfectionist in writing, and that's something I don't still, somehow I don't see that as a flaw, because I don't want to, I don't want to not care about that. So there's an element of knowing that I can achieve a certain standard because I've done it before, and then never being satisfied with anything below that. So a lot of times I am just procrastinating doing it, because sitting down to do it is very taxing, and the way I procrastinate is trying to perfect my writing. Environment in the hopes that I can coax out whatever right Muse is going to let me achieve what I want to achieve. There
Josh Lavine 45:10
you go. Yeah, I'm hearing some of the nine wing stuff there too. I mean, not just to be stereotypical, procrastinating equals nine, but it's like the way you distract yourself from your highest priority by kind of piddling about and rearranging your shells, or something like that, or getting dust one more time. Yeah. Do you have strong
Alex 45:32
political views? Yes, but they're not very specific, which is, I think social blind one, okay, I have a lot of like, opinions or feelings about things, but they're not very specific, like, I don't ascribe to any particular party or kind of I don't know enough, and I don't care to know enough to figure out exact, exactly where I stand on certain things. So I just sort of take a situation as it comes, and it'll resonate, how it resonates, and I'll decide how I feel after that. Well,
Josh Lavine 46:17
that's an interesting that's a really cool point, distinguishing one from social from in the sense that it's like, if a situation is presented to you, or you see something, then an opinion arises, or it's you can take a stand on something kind of, well, to use your word, actually, contrary to what you said, it's like that There is specificity in that. But in terms of creating a web of interconnected theories and contextualizing all those theories and what's going on socially in the world, all that stuff, and like being able to present the grand unified theory of your political philosophy that's not really interesting to you, or it's not. It's not a thing you spend energy on. Yeah. How are you feeling right this moment?
Alex 47:11
But I feel tired because it's late.
Josh Lavine 47:17
Yeah, yeah, I ask actually, just because I'm curious. And also one thing that I find really interesting about you in terms of your presentation, is how still you are in your body and how like there's almost for me as a social type, I'm watching and hearing you say things that have a lot of emotional charge, like the frustration experience at the bar or having strong opinions about certain things, or being oppressed by some kind of inner Anger mechanism or super eg or something. But if I were watching this video with the sound off, it would, it would almost be like, uh, sort of statuesque, or um or something. It would like, I wouldn't register the emotional charge, yeah. How do you experience that internally? Like your your level of emotional activation versus your level of somatic activation.
Alex 48:33
I mean, I feel I was surprised when I was typed 135, because that's like the robot, and I feel like a very emotional person, and I didn't know like How kind of robotic I can come across. So yeah, I don't, I don't know, like, other ways of physicalizing emotion, because this is, this is how I do it. I experience, to me, I experience emotions deeply, but I don't know how to compare to a different type or something,
Josh Lavine 49:21
sure, yeah, this is possibly also the social blind thing. First of all, not being or having, not really having it in your consciousness, how you're coming across, and also not, not in any conscious way, controlling it or transmitting some kind of social vibe or energy that would be consistent with your interstate Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, want to ask a couple other questions about your writing. Um, Does, does your writing, or what you're writing, have any kind of. Of mission associated with it, or or something like that.
Alex 50:07
Um, my mission is to make something that I feel is like up to my standards and matches the vision that I have for it. I have nothing beyond that, like I I'd like to publish it eventually, just so it can be done. But I don't care if I'm the only person that ever reads it, I just want it to be, how I want it to be, and how I feel like
Josh Lavine 50:43
this is another just fascinating, almost mind blowing thing for me, like just taking me in your social, blind oneness, like the the idea that you could write a book and spend all this time and an incredible amount of energy getting it to a certain standard, and then Be okay with it only being read by you. And I mean, first of all, that itself is amazing. And then paragraph two is the stereotype of ones needing to reform laws and politics and all this kind of stuff really falls apart when you get to social blind territory, because this drive for achieving some perfection and hitting hitting the mark of your standard is very self contained, to create a pursuit that is kind of just for you, or just for The people who understand it, or something like that.
Alex 51:43
Yeah. I mean, I definitely want to reform laws, and I I can look at even like the most social structure imaginable, I still would want to fix it, but I don't feel maybe it's because I'm not like in that position, but I don't feel like that's my obligation or calling or something. I try to make anything better that I come in contact with personally, so like in the workplace, at my last teaching job, for a while, I was the head teacher, and I really, really tried to, like, fix some incredibly ridiculous systems that they had in place, and I tried to make everything more streamlined for people, um, but it wasn't really because I wanted to help the people. I just I couldn't stand how it was organized, and I wanted it to be different. So, yeah, I think if I were in the situation of, you know, some sort of political uprising, or if I found myself in that context, I think I probably would take on some sort of reforming role. But it doesn't feel like my the most important thing to me, or that I'm that I must do it. It just seems like, well, if I'm there, of course I'm going to fix it.
Josh Lavine 53:36
Yeah, yeah. Um, so different topic I would love to hear what your any language you have, or your relationship to the essential quality of one which I love, John's word in his book, just integrity. And we talked, we pointed out with the tuning fork and these moments of pureness or perfection, where you see your cat's paw in the sun, and these kinds of things, they seem like, these, almost particularly the cat paw in the sun is like. That is just such an image for me, of like, Yes, I get it. That is, there is some purity and perfection in that. And it also has self pres kind of angle on it. I'm curious, yeah, how would you frame up the essence of one or the central quality? I
Alex 54:43
It's hard to frame it because it's hard to like conceptualize that other people don't have that.
But I. Yeah, it's just a feeling of something being how it's supposed to be. I don't really know how to say it in a different way. It definitely has a feeling of it used to be like that somehow, like that was the original. It almost has like a, like a fall from grace kind of feeling, um, yeah, I don't feel like I'm appealing to a new idea of what it should be like in the future, but more like this is how it was always going to be. And from from the creation of the universe or something like every atom felt like this is how it's supposed to be. And I don't know what force ruined it, but it's almost like I'm I'm remembering a different what's it called, like a parallel universe or something, and feeling so out of place and like I can't, I can't breathe this Air in this universe because it's so fundamentally wrong compared to what I feel, what I know is, you know how it's supposed to be. So the feeling of integrity that I witness in those moments is, yeah, it's like the personality can just stop doing and stop the effort, and you don't realize how much effort you've been putting in and how exhausted and sad you are, until that second when you can just stop. I think. I don't remember if it's I don't know what part of the lingo it is, but I also resonate with the word like serenity and kind of accepting, accepting that moment how it is, and finding beauty. Or um perfection in that, in that one single moment.
Josh Lavine 57:32
Yeah, yeah. As a triple competency type, what's it like for you to consider being emotionally real or reactive, in the style of 468 or seeing the bright side or silver lining of something like a positive ballot
Alex 57:53
type, both of those just seem kind of like useless to me. Yeah, reactive just seems like kind of messy and not really. It feels like it cheapens the emotions to just throw them everywhere, and positive types just feel delusional most of the time, and in that delusion, I often get upset because I feel like they aren't caring with me about the things that I'm seeing, like they're blind to it,
Josh Lavine 58:39
right? And the things that you're seeing are
Alex 58:44
either it's like just, you know, things that need to be done, or things that are wrong that actually make me upset. I Yeah, so both of them just feel kind of like childish to me.
Josh Lavine 59:06
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Alex 59:09
There. There are quite a few things that I think are misunderstood about one that, oh,
Josh Lavine 59:18
this is great, yeah, let's go there. Yeah.
Alex 59:21
There's a lot of things though, okay, and I'm trying to think which, which one I would address. I kind of already did talk about how one is neglected as a gut type. I think the other thing that I would just touch on is that I see a lot, and it annoys me because it is so not how I experience myself is people saying that one is. Is like one considers anger to be a bad emotion, and that's why they shut it down, or that one is always experiencing this inner critic telling them they're bad or they shouldn't think like that, and that's just not the internal experience that I have at all. And I yeah, I don't know if that's something you've noticed as well with any descriptions, but I think anger Sure. I don't think an emotion can be bad. I don't think anything internal can be bad or good, it's just signals, and what I do about it, and how I act upon that is holds more moral weight, so I don't experience like a voice in my head criticizing me or making me relive the past, or anything like that. That just seems maybe more in line with six or something. And I think that many people imagine that that's what the inside of one's head must be like, is just yelling at yourself all the time, and I don't know, like being like a really irritating parent or something, and like, most of the time I don't really have anything going on in my head. It's just, it's just driven by whatever I'm doing and how my body feels about that. And it's really, it's really hard to like, I would imagine it's really hard for someone who's not one to kind of like, understand how that can be your experience when outwardly you're so critical or whatever, but yeah, I just think There's a lot of interestingly bad hypothesizing about how one is feeling about their self. That is just not my experience. This
Josh Lavine 1:02:30
statement you're making that it's not really like something arises in me and then I judge it for arising. It's like anything that arises in me is neutral. It's just what you do about it. That's a really interesting distinction at the level of, like your experiential reality, and it does contradict a lot of what is taught about ones where, like a classic one example that's taught is, it's like an inner impulse arises that would take me away from alignment with myself or my principle. Like, for example, if I care about being a vegan and I see it steak and it looks juicy, there's something in me that cans it says, No, you're not like. It asserts that. It asserts an inner boundary against that impulse or that desire. And I think that's true.
Alex 1:03:14
I think that is true. Yeah. I think the distinction for me would be it's not accompanied by, No, you shouldn't eat that. That's a bad thing to do. What's wrong with you? It's just like, doesn't fit next. Doesn't fit next. It's not it doesn't feel like I have something else hanging over me telling me what to do. It's just It doesn't fit my body, so it goes to the next I do something else. It's not like a little nagging voice, like, I wish I could do that, but the little voice won't let me. It doesn't. I don't experience like that. It's definitely a I guess you could say it's a judgment, but it's just, it's like a puzzle piece doesn't fit next one.
Josh Lavine 1:04:02
Yeah, this is also talking about, I mean, one is a body type. The body is king here. It's like, it's, it's a felt, sense experience onto the next thing. And so even calling it a judgment, for example, is like a mental languaging around some like deeply felt, somatic experience. One way that I've heard that one taught a lot is that they're trying to win brownie points from an inner critic. Always, it's like there's some inner standard that exists in whether it's a it's often characterized as a voice, but I like your tuning fork analogy kind of better. But even so, there's some way that the tuning fork itself is is mediating some standard against which any inner impulse or external reality is either lining up with or not lining up with. Does that feel like a fair characterization?
Alex 1:05:03
Yeah, I think, I think that's, I think what most descriptions are attempting to describe is not wrong, but it's how that gets like framed as it's just this little, you know, poor person that's trying so hard, but they have this standard that they're they never feel good enough. They just want to, and that makes it seem like there's a separation between the like ego and the standards. But for me, the ego is the standard. And, yeah, yeah, like the self that's maybe, like, the poor little human self isn't even on the radar, which is the problem. And, you know, like, there are moments, rare moments where I can see that self that's just like this dumb, little human person trying really hard and, like, caring a lot about things, and that's, you know, kind of sad or pitiful, but most of the time, like, yeah, I am that standard, and that standard is me. So there's no conflict about I want to do this, but like, Daddy said, No, it's, it's like, I feel like I should do this, so I want to do this. Yeah, that's what gives like one such an authority, is that there is no conflict or push pull. It's just shutting out any dissociating from any humanity and just only operating as that tuning fork machine,
Josh Lavine 1:07:02
yeah. And then is there a okay, this is really quite profound. What you're saying. I mean, I guess this is a distinction between the six, inner split and inner negotiation versus the one like total system alignment with the standard that is me. And what I'm interested in is, if you take a framework like inner family systems, which is like a parts work do you know what that is like a parts work framework? No. The the gist is basically that we're not as human beings made up of a single unified consciousness. We have parts. Like one part of us wants to go, you know, wants to get out of bed, another part of us would rather stay. And there's an inner conflict. Kind of sounds like what you're saying is, in a sense, like your actual inner experience is that that's not really what happens for you. It's almost like you don't really have parts. You've got just like the standard and your actions to align with that standard. But I would be curious, this is kind of a push to like the the part of you that dissociates or that gets, like, blocked out of the picture in order for the remainder of you to be in alignment with this thing. I hear you that it's not, there's not an inner negotiation going on, but I, but I would bet you that there's something that is being stuffed, or something like that that's just not being allowed to have a voice, and so that's what stifles or mutes the inner negotiation. Um, yeah, you said, I'm saying, Yeah, I
Alex 1:08:49
think that's accurate.
Josh Lavine 1:08:50
You agree with that. Okay, interesting, cool, yeah, anything else about oneness or one misconceptions that would be that you want to share?
Alex 1:09:00
Uh, no, I think I covered all those.
Josh Lavine 1:09:05
What has this? Has this been like for you?
Alex 1:09:09
Um, interesting conversation, and like even this conversation has given me new insights to think about. Um, yeah,
like, what I expected when I did. It was just something that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, let
Josh Lavine 1:09:34
me ask one other question in this space. Do you experience this is maybe a social, blind, oriented question. Do you experience yourself or have some emotional response to being the subject of questioning about yourself?
Alex 1:09:51
I prefer it because I don't know how to ask questions. I think this is way easier than a conversation. I. And I think it's maybe spsx in particular that's like, very satisfied to just constantly, like, churn in on itself and think about itself and come up with new ideas about itself. So that's that's pretty comfortable space for me,
Josh Lavine 1:10:23
huh? Cool, yeah. Well, thank you thanks for doing this, and I appreciate your your honesty and your willingness to be Yeah, to kind of dig around this inner territory for me. Yeah? Thank you. You.
