Sienna 0:00
It's like,
sometimes it happens at the beginning of the performance. I usually do it right, right at the top, but it's this energetic, hey, I'm just like, I'm just like, Hey, Hi, we're here. You feel it? We're all here. I feel it. Okay. You ready? Okay, some of you are ready, some of you are not. That's okay. And then I'm like, and sometimes they're not ready. And I'm like, All right, here we go. But I like, I'm always like, clicked into it's not a mental thing. It's like a physical. I feel everybody in the room. And I'm like, I'm taking you with me.
Josh Lavine 0:39
Welcome to another episode of what it's like to be you. I'm Josh Lavine, your host today. My guest is Sienna Hassett. Sienna is a sexual, social, eight, wing, 7827, tri fix. And I was smiling because I loved this conversation. I loved having the conversation. I loved watching it back when I when I watched it back, I had tears, and I don't want to do too much to set up the conversation, because the conversation itself was a journey that we both went on. Started a little funky, in a way that was emphasizing sort of the caricature of eight more than the heart of the eight. And we found the right conversational thread that took us to a place that about halfway through the conversation, we land at a place that's really saturated with a lot of heart. And I just found the whole thing very beautiful. One thing I love so much about AIDS is how they are not at all afraid of their own life force. And I just felt that so much with Sienna. I think of it as part of the virtue of eight, which is innocence, which is partly that, partly the willingness to be affected by the world, my environment. And I think Sienna is such a beautiful example of an eight who embodies that virtue of innocence, and she's willing to be vulnerable, and her relationship with her art is so close to the heart. And, you know, I just found her personhood and the way that she engaged with me in real time, with that sense of immediacy, what's happening right here right now. It affected me. It touched me. And on a personal note, through this conversation, I came to the realization that what I'm doing here with these interviews is a version of my own art, and I really appreciate that insight I wouldn't have come to without Sienna. So thank you, Sienna. I love this conversation for the way that it puts on display the heart of the eights and the spirit of the eights and the willingness to engage in the moments of the eights, and especially to Sienna being double people, sexual, social. There was a sense of like we're really having this conversation right now. Like this is a conversation. Something is happening here right now between us, and I just love that. So without further ado, I'm very excited for you to experience and learn from my friend Sienna. So hello. Here we are. Hi. I wanted to ask you to start. So actually, let me set this up. Can you just share your full typing and how you know that it's true?
Sienna 3:09
Okay, I'm an eight with a seven sexual, social my I don't know how you kids are saying it now, but my try type is eight to seven,
Josh Lavine 3:25
okay, check
Sienna 3:29
and how do I know this Is my typing? Yeah,
yeah, how do you know
i Oh, so many things like that. The way I have conversations, when I think I'm being like, very diplomatic and gentle and to the point and I, I, I find myself, especially as I'm becoming less attached to emotionally during like arguments and conversations. I can see myself being this, like, kind of bull in a china shop. You know, I think I'm being so subtle. Subtlety is not something that comes very natural to me, and I think that that's something that's so beautiful about being an eight is like you walk in when I walk in a room my whole life, people are like, Well, hello, having said a thing the other day, my partner was, I don't know why we were doing this, but he was like, um, Mimic, mimitating, okay, mimicking or imitating me. Coming up, coming up the stairs. Okay? Eddie, open the door. You just hear like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, quiet. Door opens.
Josh Lavine 5:16
So are you. So I love that you have a sense of humor about this. Is it? Is it? Was it, when you heard him doing the impression, was it obvious that it was like, oh, yeah, I know that's me. Like, I do that.
Sienna 5:29
It was, it was hilarious. Because, yes, I know I do that, but I don't think I realized that that's how I come in all the time. You know? Yeah, I'm just thinking I'm doing other things. There's just sort of, like a the way that I approach even, like, touching things is, like, I go through the thing. I'm not meeting meeting it at the edge. I'm like, going to the end of it. So, if that makes sense, even coming in the house, I'm not, like, touching the the edge of the doorknob. I'm grabbing it. Yeah,
Josh Lavine 5:58
wow, that's a beautiful way to put it. Actually, have you ever done Alexander Technique? Do you know Alexander
Sienna 6:03
I haven't. People have asked me that I just, I think in movements, because I am a movement artist, I right. I think in that sense, and I haven't done Alexander Technique. I've always wanted to. It's not the way that you like, one of the ways that you can release tension by connecting your thoughts to your muscles. Is that kind of what it is? Yeah,
Josh Lavine 6:28
that's one angle Alexander technique. It's like a body mindfulness practice, and you typically do it with a teacher. And it's a it's a way of tuning into and restoring the proper use of your body. And one of the things that I was, I was temporarily in an Alexander teacher training thing, and one of the things that we did was just, like, touch or like, pick up an object and hold it, and the way that you're describing, like meeting the object. I was, it was reminiscent, to me, the Alexander Technique, but that's really interesting. So you feel like you kind of interesting. So you feel like you kind of
Sienna 7:05
go through the object, what? Yeah, yeah. Sorry, please. Okay,
Josh Lavine 7:09
one of the things that I find, like kind of invigorating about talking to you, and we've now talked, this is our third time chatting. Um, is that when I it's like, we get on the call and it's almost like there's just a sense of, like, it's like your eyes are big and like there's like a leaning forward, like, readiness. It's like, I feel it's like, I feel like we're ready for something here. And, yeah, where to go from here? So actually, one of the things I want to mention is you use, you said, Actually, do you want to respond to that?
Sienna 7:57
I would like to respond that. And I'm still kind of on the first question, if I'm totally honest. Um, yeah, go ahead. Um, but the the, let's see, to answer, the running, the readiness thing, um, I think that two things. One, I think that's a lot of my sexual variant of what not, end my seven as well. I don't want to miss anything, and I want to, like, make sure that I'm very interested in you. And so I find that that wanting to, like, just be just like a natural, like, fully participating. I love people, and I love like interacting, and I also just want to get the most out of the situation, you know. And also for you too, as well, I just, I get very charged by human interaction. And I think that one your question of, like, what is, what does that? What did? How did you ask it? What is,
Josh Lavine 9:04
I just asked something like, how do you know? How do you know? How
Sienna 9:07
do I know? Yeah, I find that the clearest way that I know that I'm an eight is my connection to action, that that happens first. It's almost like if I feel something, I don't even necessarily feel it. I'm acting on it before I even feel it. It's it's difficult to feel things sometimes, or I feel it so i It's confusing, because I feel it very strongly, but I'm already doing something about it in contrary or in service of the thing. And this, this need for and charge that I get from an energy exchange that I experience in when being with people, especially having interesting conversations. Definitely, I. Is my sexual variant, I would say, yeah, yeah. And I have a very strong connection to two. I go to eight to two pretty fast. I think in the past, I've used
that
to kind of separate myself from vulnerability. I will, you know, really invest in my friendships, but it will be all about them, in a way, all their issues, all the things, just being very emotionally available, and then there's not, I don't make a lot of space for myself and my what I like my what's actually going on with me? I just that that was, like, a lot of my 20s, of like, going to two in that way, in kind of an unhealthy way, but also a really beautiful way for others, but sometimes not great for myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Lavine 10:55
So I want to, um, set a big framing for this conversation. So we have so sexual, social. We have eight, wing, 7827, you're a performing artist and are interested in experimental theater, which I think is really interesting. Kind of want to get into that at some point. Some of the things I want to explore you said in our last in our one of our prep conversations, that a lot your biggest fear is deadness. You called it, and this is in contrast to this word that we use sometimes with the eight essential quality of aliveness. And you know, even just right before this, like we push record here you you mentioned this thing that you've said a couple times before. So I know it's really important to you, is that you want to be speaking from a real place and not amping up the situation. And I'm curious how you track that in real time. And do you have a sense of like? Give a sense of like where you're at right now with it? I
Sienna 12:05
do I have a sense right now if I'm amping,
yeah, okay,
Josh Lavine 12:15
or maybe another the way in is, like, how would you know, like, what would you be paying? What would you be noticing?
Sienna 12:28
I find that what I would be noticing when I'm amping up the situation, which I feel like I've already kind of done it once, is getting uh reactions out of other like the like you, for example, um, and sort of using the information to get you to laugh or To make a like light of the situation, even if I'm talking about something that maybe I've struggled with, or, or, or something. But I think that the way that the amp happens is I, I'm it's almost like wanting to get it, get the attention off me, maybe by creating this other sort of version that's sort of like, oh yeah, eights do this, and just sort of like, because I know that that's something that will get a reaction, or that, like, we'll both be having, like, a good time or something, and or maybe It's sort of like pushing the boundary of how people talk about it, and I like to kind of see what, what, what are you going to think about that if I'm sort of saying something you didn't expect so and it's not that, it's Not that it's always, it's untrue. It's just like,
it's just sometimes a way to
like, I said, it's like a mechanism to protect against vulnerability. I think sometimes, sure, and I track it when I it's almost like I can feel myself, like getting away from myself. It's sort of like I'm out here and my body's back here.
Yeah, um, yeah.
Like, even when I was talking about just not to over analyze this interview, but um, even when I was talking about, like, how do I know I'm an eight I immediately had this, like, thought of, like, Oh, let me just talk about how I kind of, like, I. You know, I'm an bull in a china shop thing, you know, I'm, like, I I latched into something, and then I just sort of, like, used it to sort of bring us to another place. Does that make sense? It
Josh Lavine 15:12
does, yeah, I'm, I'm sitting here with, um, let me take a minute.
Sienna 15:18
Okay, yeah, I'm sorry. I feel like I'm, I'm feeling a little like, heady. I feel like
Josh Lavine 15:23
kind of scattered myself, actually, yeah, yeah, hmm.
Sienna 15:31
Feel like I'm going to D I don't know. I'm feeling a little nervous.
I feel like, yeah.
How are you feeling right this moment? I'm feeling very sweaty,
okay, yeah.
Josh Lavine 15:42
I feel like it would help if we had, like, a narrower thing to talk about, okay, like a situation or, like a relationship or a moment. Okay, so let's see some so, some anchor points we have so you so you do experimental theater. You are living with your partner here in Detroit. You live a block away from your parents, and know that your dad is also an aide, yeah, yeah. Maybe, maybe you know what I love to do, actually, I would love to just hear, like, the basic contours of your life story. Like, how do you so, like, you're in Detroit now,
Sienna 16:32
yeah,
Josh Lavine 16:33
you you started here in Detroit, yeah, and you've lived elsewhere, and then you came back. So, like, what was maybe since? Like, since college, what's, what's your life? What have been the phases of your life? Well,
Sienna 16:51
I went to Wayne State and studied in Moscow, Russia, studied acting there, and then, when I graduated Wayne, I moved to New York to pursue acting, and I lived there for two years and did that hustle, and then I moved back to Detroit and really immersed in the experimental theater scene here by making my own work written by friends, and then I produced it and started it, and just did. And then I just started experimenting with movement. And that, my couple friends and I, we just we started a company together, and we're writing plays and creating gesture vocabularies. And then that brought me to study corporeal mime in Spain, in Barcelona, and I was there almost three years, and it really opened me up. It's a very rigorous program where you're learning a very particular body technique or a technique of mime. It's a corporeal so it's like using the spine to create different emotions, stories, characters, feelings. So honestly, I think I'd probably still be there if it wasn't for COVID. I graduated, and then I stayed and was making original work, and came back because of the to Michigan for the pandemic, fell in love and moved to Chicago, where my partner, James, who's a musician, was living, and I moved into a house with a couple with women. And then was, I did a little bit of film out there, a little bit, like, just in the in the house that, and had a couple things go some places. And then I moved back here, like, last year, yeah, okay, and haven't really been making art so much, and miss it pretty desperately, so just trying to find a way back in, I find that my perfectionism is pretty strong and and Sometimes it's hard for me to enter into things I care about so much, like, like physical theater. I found that, like my artistic self, I feel like I left her in Barcelona, and I'm she's actually with me, but I, I'm struggling to like embody that, even though I know that it's true. So right now, I'm just getting better about financially supporting myself and finding some kind of gig work that will fulfill me. So I. Yeah, I'm looking to do coaching, and we'd love to have that as like a base, and then be making all sorts of really strange, amazing art. Yeah, yeah.
Josh Lavine 20:12
Can you so the the theme of art, like, that's been a major pulse underneath your life for you? Yes, yeah. Um, what drew you to, why corporeal mime and and being a movement artist? What's, what was the what was that there for you? Honestly,
Sienna 20:30
Josh, I typed in physical theater Europe and into Google, and it was the first school that popped up. It's maveo, and I was looking at the videos and like, okay, everyone's kind of moving around like worms. I don't know about this, but I read what their, what their, what caporal mime is, is about, and at the essence is to make the invisible visible. And that, just like, grabbed me so much.
Josh Lavine 21:03
How old were you? When? When you when this grabbed you? 29
Sienna 21:07
excuse me, 2929 I'm 35 now, yeah, okay, and I did the interview, and that's what really sold me, actually, is the way she was asking me questions, and the sensibility that they're looking for in their program, just the sense of curiosity with with the body and I really was drawn to once I got there. I mean, all the classes were in Spanish, so I didn't really speak much Spanish, so I was learning two languages at the same time. My journey there was pretty incredible, like that. My second year, we were all women, the nine of us, and it was just so powerful. I feel really great working with women. Yeah, creatively, I feel very safe, and just what you can make, like, what you what you can make, is pretty, pretty insane, I would say, and I learned a physical language. That's why I went. I wanted to get my ass kicked. That was, like, the reason I went. I was like, I want to go and just get my ass kicked with this thing. I don't even know what it is. I never even saw, like, corporeal mine before. Some of the other people had, like, done it. Yeah, I hadn't done I didn't know shit about it. I didn't even know that, like, okay, you know, the body parts were broken up in certain in, like, there were, there was, like, a whole language. I didn't I didn't know about it, so I went in totally blind. I cried a lot. My teacher even said, like, I've talked to him the other day because he wanted me to do a promo video. And he was like, I really miss you crying in class. Oh, that's so sweet. Yeah. Because he was like, people don't cry like you cry. People cry because they're like from this, like, really deep, dark place. But when you cry, it's because it's like a release from whether it's like joy or frustration, and it's true, it's just like I would feel so much that I would just come out of my face.
Thank you for asking me that that felt good.
Josh Lavine 23:24
Yeah, you're welcome. So I agree this is good territory. So let so this is, let me just get even. So back up for a second. So you were 29 you discovered Corporal mime out of the based on a just a Google search. And then you dove into a program that you knew nothing about, but you'd had this whole like, what led up to that moment where you were this is interesting. This is partly the sexual instinct, I think, is like the sense that, oh, this is a thing that will transform me. I have to follow this. This thing, and then you moved for it, right? You moved across. Where was it you were living?
Sienna 24:07
I was living in Detroit. Yeah, yeah.
Josh Lavine 24:12
I mean, we just, that's like a pretty like exclamation point. That's a, that's a radical thing to do with your life, right? Like, what and what were you doing before I
Sienna 24:21
was making art in Detroit, yeah,
Josh Lavine 24:27
and was there like a sense of something missing for you that caused you to do the search and then look for something?
Sienna 24:33
Yes, I a very physical performer, and I noticed that the work I was making was getting more and more physical. Okay, and I don't really have a dance background. I love to dance like, you know, at weddings and at clubs and just on the street, yeah, with my headphones in. But I was, I. Wanting to have more of a grounding in movement, because I have such a natural, like, leaning towards it, and it's just what the it's just what the work wanted. And so I was, like, looking around. There was a school in California, but it was very expensive, and also just very like little too Woo. Woo. For me, I didn't need any more. I didn't I wasn't looking for any more theater schools. That's a particular culture. I was looking for a program for professionals and and I got to experience professionals from all over the world with different backgrounds and creatively and culturally. And it was, it was incredible, yeah, and I really, like, I'm not going to be shy about this. I mean, I was like a caterpillar to a butterfly in this program. Like I, I worked my ass off because I was so quote, unquote, behind I just didn't have the skills and tools that all these people had. I mean, after like, the first three some months, the teachers, kind of later came to me, were like, we weren't really sure if you were gonna make it, because of how much I was struggling. And, yeah, I just, I also found that in moments that I was kind of like a natural leader in the in the program, like we all had a say in things, and we're very great collaborators. But I just, I love to, I loved the opportunity to, like, lift up these people together in the in just acknowledging how talented they were and being able to work with them, it was just incredible.
Josh Lavine 26:45
Yeah, what emerged when you say, butterfly, What? What? What were you before? And what are you after?
Sienna 26:54
Um, I was someone who was like desperately trying to enter in to the this style of movement, and what it required was practice. Like, I just became this, like, very religious practice, or I had, I was, like a practitioner. I really went into that mode, because I was one of the first times I understood, like, I have to be like etching in this little by little in order to get a sense of what, what the hell this is. You know how to move this way. And I, I was able to enter in more and more. And by our final performance, I was just, like, absolutely unstoppable, like, just in the way that I was able to integrate my improvisation skills. Because I'm a wonderful improviser. I love improvising in in theater is absolutely my top favorite thing to do, and so to be able to combine that with technique and with, you know, learning all not just corporeal mime, but like contemporary dance and Le Coq technique and some other things, it was just allowed me to feel the most alive, like very I felt like I was flying on stage, because I had this grounding and this sense of rigorous practice. But it felt light. It didn't feel hard. I think that I have a very unhealthy attachment to heart of things needing to be work or things need to feel hard in order to feel like I earn it, and I've been working hard on letting that go, but I feel like studying mime really helped me have a healthy connection to Things You care about can have ease, and you can be working on it, and little by little, and it'd be difficult, but not like, not like, super hard or problematic. Does that make sense? Like, dramatic.
Josh Lavine 29:22
You know what? I'm like, my curiosity is still around, what is it? What is it that like, obviously, movement and the style of corporal online, but deeper than the style, I think, is the the philosophy and what this kind of style, or combination of styles of movement allows you to access in yourself and express there's something, there's some undercurrent of like, deep passion and meaning that I think you're getting from this. And I wonder if you have words for what that is like, why? Like Bay. The question is, like, why are you so passionate about
Sienna 30:10
it? I don't know. It just makes sense to me.
Josh Lavine 30:14
I love that. Yeah,
Sienna 30:15
it's really hard for me to say the words. I don't know, but I don't, and it's very once I say it, it's very exciting. Like, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I just It's what my body wants to do, and it's very good at it. And I feel like I've watched it bring a lot of people a lot of joy. Like, when I'm on stage, I I feel, I can feel other people feel very alive.
Um, that's cool,
yeah, it feels kind of like a superpower,
yeah, yeah,
Josh Lavine 30:50
yeah. I can feel the emotion, yeah, what's Yeah, what's coming up?
Sienna 30:57
No, it's nice. I appreciate you seeing me. Yeah.
I just,
yeah. It's the, like, very deep part of me and I it's been cut off lately, so I think that's partly where some of the emotion is coming from. But it's Yeah, it feels nice to be seen. Yeah,
Josh Lavine 31:24
you know, it's, it's amazing how like, it's like this feeling, this feeling of dropping into, I've done performance a lot myself, and I relate to the these are my words, not yours. But it's like that, the feeling of not just being in flow, but participating in something beautiful and collaborative with an audience that is alive. To use our favorite word here, and I think it's interesting how aware you are of the exchange of energy between you and the audience, or how how you're impacting the audience, right? Do you have, do you have words for that? Or, like, what it's like in those kinds of moments?
Sienna 32:09
Yeah, it's like, it's like,
sometimes it happens at the beginning of the performance. I usually do it right, right at the top, but it's this energetic. Hey, I'm just like, I'm just like, Hey, Hi, we're here. You feel it? We're all here. I feel it, okay. You ready? Okay, some of you are ready. Some of you are not. That's okay. And then I'm like, and sometimes they're not ready. And I'm like, All right, here we go. But I like, I'm always like, clicked into it's not a mental thing. It's like a physical I feel everybody in the room, and I'm like, I'm taking you with me by sometimes, by looking at individual faces. But it's just like an it's not, it's sometimes, but it's really mostly just like feeling the whole group and working with what they're they're giving me because I'm I'm not doing this performance just for the sake of it. I'm doing it for the people who came that night or that. And if it's one person in a rehearsal situation, all I need is like one person in the room, yeah, for me to feel connected to my to my work, sometimes it's hard for me to to to do it by myself. It's like I need that external energy in order to feel like it. And honestly, I need that external reaction, whether you like it or not. I just need something to sort of like push up against or bring with me having that external reaction is, it feels important, sometimes annoyingly, too important, but, yeah, oh, what a wonderful question. I love that. What? Yeah, that's, that's what I love about being on on stage. Cool being with the people there that night. My fucking favorite thing, hell yeah.
Josh Lavine 34:08
And is, is, Are most of your performances, do they have an aspect of improvisation or interaction, or is it, is it I'm getting the sense, and you tell me if I'm right, but your performances are not, like meticulously choreographed. There's like, an element of,
Sienna 34:26
oh yes, they're meticulously choreographed.
I see, okay, so, yes, okay, so yeah, and, but
there's always room for for improvisation, maybe, maybe, like at the top, I'm like, I'm just gonna do a thing, and then we'll get into the improvisation or No, but it's most of the time. It's like it's very each, each movement is is threaded together into it into a piece and, and also, I do so many different things. Josh, it just depends. What I'm doing, am I doing like, a monolog where I'm, like, knee deep in dirt and like, then maybe I'm, I'm gonna do something different. But, yeah, it depends on the situation. But like, there's definitely, I find it important to have certain things be very, like, meticulous, but I yeah, they're like, I guess I wanted to reject what you said, but honestly, there's, there's always, there's always something that's going to be different, because every, every performance is a little bit different. I
Josh Lavine 35:29
think, yeah, what I'm tuning into is, is that there is, there's some space, whether the thing is, is choreographed or not, there's space for experience discovering and then surfing on the wave of what it what it is tonight.
Sienna 35:48
Like, yeah, well, said, definitely.
Josh Lavine 35:53
And I think so it's interesting, because when I and that's kind of how our conversations are, too, you and me, so far, it's like this. When we first met, it was kind of like, okay, here we are ready. Like, we're like, meeting each other. And I made the comment to after like, maybe 30 minutes of talking, I was like, I was like, Hold on, wait, tell me your what's your what's going on in your life? And you were like, you're like, Oh yeah, I gotta give this man some context. We haven't even talked about, like, where I live, who I am, what I do, there's um, there's like a sense of in your in your energy, a question, like, what's here right now? And and it's almost like, if, if we're not on that, if it's like, if we found, if we find the wrong answer, the energy is just not there. It's like, feels off. But if we find it, it's like, all right, there's something.
Sienna 36:50
Wait. Can you explain that a little more?
Yeah,
Josh Lavine 36:58
let's see. I'm thinking of how we started this interview. And I'm thinking, so this is, like, some meta commentary for a second. I'm I'm thinking about how, like, I start with this question of, like, how do you know you're an eight? And it's like, that question is, like, big, wide open, like, 360 view with no time constraint, with no just, like, tell me about your life, who you are in the context of this thing called the Enneagram. And I, my sense is that it allowed you, like, to pull a couple of quick associations from what you how you see yourself through the lens of the Enneagram. But it but we kind of stuttered, and then the conversation kind of didn't really have grounding yet, because we hadn't caught what's here right now yet. That's my sense. And so now. So then I was like, Wait, okay, let's find something. Let's find something that could be alive here. So then, so then the question of your life, and then, like, wait a minute, this like, thread that I'm sensing around art and your passion for it, and then, and then probing further and further, it's like, Okay, now we're like, it's almost like, digging into, like, there's some river of life happening underneath here, and we just gotta, like, we just gotta drop into that,
Sienna 38:23
and then we're here. Yeah,
Josh Lavine 38:26
that's my sense. What is that your sense? Too? Do I have it right?
Sienna 38:30
Or you opened my eyes to something. I feel it, but I didn't know that's it makes sense to me, but I didn't note that I did, I guess I experienced some of the things you were saying, but that's a little new to me. It makes sense, sure,
yeah,
yeah. I appreciate you understanding this, like, what's here now? Yeah, I think I kind of focus, yeah, in that way
Josh Lavine 39:04
it's interesting, because it it what's happening for me right now is I'm having, like, a fresh experience of the boxiness of the Enneagram, like having a conversation with you about you as an eight is like this sort of box here, but having a conversation with you about you as an artist actually exposes your eightness in a totally different way. And and actually, it allows you to just, it's like, let me say, this way, what a cool superpower you have. And how is like? Isn't that the isn't that the gift of the eight? You know, just having a sharing, a moment of aliveness with with people, and that's the way you articulated, like, being able to that like, hey, that energy, like, Let's fucking go. And then some of you are ready, some of you are not, but I'm gonna bring you all with me. That's the eight. Yeah, yeah, it's
Sienna 40:02
pretty cool. It is,
yeah, yeah. And I wonder if some of the boxiness is, you know, I've known about the Enneagram cells since I was a little kid. People have been telling me what an eight looks like for a long time, and so it's fun to sort of play into that. Sure, yeah, but I'm so, yeah, I'm so many things, and I work. I've worked very hard over the years to sort of continue to open myself up and integrate the other numbers and be aware of of my of my eightness. And more than anything, what the Enneagram it has done for me, like when I started getting into it myself in college, is, is really understanding others types, like, like, really understanding like, oh, not, not everyone wants to be greeted in that way, or wants to be doesn't arrive to a space the same way that I do. It's like, some people need more time. I just feel like, yeah, it helped me. I get stuck in my own way of doing things, and I in the past, I thought that other people did the same, and it's like, nope.
Josh Lavine 41:28
So it feels like what we're kind of discovering here is this sense of like that, that thing that you have in the moment of a performance is, is like a thing that you're looking for in an almost constant way, in the same way that every Enneagram type is looking for something like as Misa three is like, I'm looking for some way that we are, like, heart connected, and you're seeing me and I'm seeing you, and there's a kind of like energy, like, like a beauty and identities, kind of being exposed and exchanged and touched. That's kind of what I'm looking for, and for using eight again, I don't want to box it too hard and says language. But we've kind of, we've we've revealed this, this thing, this, like, the sense of aliveness that comes to you in these in these moments of performance. And it's almost like you're looking for that in your life. Or it's kind of like, Wait, is it here now? Is it here now? Is it here now, with this person in this room right now, and and that causes you, in the style of mate, to grip too hard, or overdo it, or crash through an object or a person accidentally in search for that thing, that's a dart at a board. You tell me if I'm right. Does that feel right to you? That framing?
Sienna 42:54
Yes, I you
Josh Lavine 43:06
know, what's amazing is, um, I'm so struck by the quality of, like, stillness we have here right now. Yeah, it's
Sienna 43:16
nice. Yeah, it is nice.
I feel like in the river that you were,
that you were talking about,
I thought, love to answer the question you were asking me about, like, I don't know, I don't remember, honestly,
Josh Lavine 43:52
yeah, I'll restate it or Yeah. So it's kind of like
you were joking before, and also maybe playing into the caricature of eight as you experience it being told to you, and as you sometimes have experienced in yourself around moving through an object or like the crashing up the stairs and the door and stuff like that. And I'm kind of tying it to this, this this search, this, like, ever, ever present search you have going for, like, what's alive right now? And so the question was, like, where's it gotten you in trouble? But also I'm wondering to, like, what
I'm really wondering, actually is, how does it feel when when the search isn't going well, like when you're not finding it?
Sienna 44:55
I feel impatient. I. Impulsive,
indulgent in other things to get that thing like, sometimes, like ordering a bunch of takeout, I feel like can be that for me, sometimes,
or
picking fights can look like that, or sometimes it looks like creating problems where there aren't any,
okay, I struggle with that where, like, right, right now I'm my life is is very good. And you know, you're really helping me realize, like, how, how much like making art really isn't an option. Lately, I've been making it for myself as if, oh, I guess I'm not doing that. It's like, No, it just is in everything I do. It exists. Like, it doesn't matter if I'm making breakfast or if I'm writing something in my notebook like my artist is always speaking. It's just a huge center of myself, yeah, but also my but in not addressing that and in and that need for aliveness, I feel like, I guess I'm I, I find myself lately, like creating problems that don't exist so I can, like, have something to do. And there's becomes this, like a negativity, like working, sifting through negativity as a way of being real. Like, okay, I need to think about what's not going well. I have a really great image for kind of what happens when it's not going well, as you were saying, Yeah, I call it legs. Actually, I've, like, I've drawn a picture of it before. It before. It kind of looks like something from Stranger Things. I have it in here, if you want to see it. And it's this. It was something that was created when I was a little when I was in middle school. I can picture myself like being at my desk and just giving, like, really having my report card and getting really bad grades, and just be, I'm sitting there, and it's like this.
It's like this feeling of that I'm as I'm not enough, and so what legs does, and it can be very positive, but also in this stage can be very negative. It's just taking care of all the external problems. Any little external problem that happens, it'll take care of it, whether it's like an email that made me feel taken advantage of, gotta squash that. If it's like, my my cabinets need to be reorganized, even though I have, like, this really important writing project that I'm working on legs is like, no, no, you got to clean the kitchen. You got to take care of everything external to make sure you're safe. And because that's something you can control. You can control your external environment. And so that's where sometimes my writing and my art gets choked out because legs is just just trying to take care of me, and it's like, whoa. Slow down. Slow down. We don't need to be doing all these things we can. Like I lose, like my heart sometimes and being connected to the ground I my body just becomes a consequence of the thing that I'm trying to get done. So leg, legs looks like,
Unknown Speaker 49:25
Oh my god.
Sienna 49:27
Legs looks like this.
Josh Lavine 49:34
Okay, I love this. Yeah,
Sienna 49:36
yeah. Doesn't that look like something from Stranger Things kind of Yeah, like something the kid would draw, like, Oh, this is in my brain. It looks
Josh Lavine 49:44
like, it looks like, um, looks like a demon dream figure or something like that. Like, yeah, 234512345678,
Sienna 49:58
there's nine of them. I.
Hmm, nine legs, yeah.
Josh Lavine 50:07
Why did you have that? They're just so easily accessible.
Sienna 50:10
This is my desk. This was planned. This is planned the whole time. No, that's a good question. I don't know. I think I've always kept it there as like, Oh, if I need to remind myself. But of course, it's like, under everything in the bottom of the thing, yeah, it's something that I did in therapy. Okay, yeah, cool, yeah. And the other place is, like, this soft pink space where everything, like, slows down. If you watch this, I have this movement video on my website called The sculptor, and in part of it, like the latter half of the video, there's, like, she's in this like, pink, dreamy space. And that's when legs is, like, it's chilling. I'm able to, like, calm it down. Yeah, there's like, this beautiful, soft pink space where I can be soft with myself, which is not always very easy for me.
Yeah, yeah.
Josh Lavine 51:35
I feel like saturated with the i i
Like this moment just feels really beautiful.
Sienna 51:50
I feel that way too. I feel that way too.
I appreciate you saying that because it's something that it's like my current homework is to experience beauty for like, 20 minutes a day to, like, reconnect myself with my with my artist and once a week, I'm taking myself on an artist date. Oh, awesome. Yeah, I struggle. I struggle with the 20 minutes a day. Even though I like do it all the time, it's just acknowledging that that's what's happening. Hey, you're you're in beauty. You're experiencing beauty. So fulfilling and fills me up so much.
Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, I'm
Josh Lavine 52:44
kind of wondering where to go from here. I'm tempted to, like, I have questions about in sort of interview mode, yeah, but I kind of feel like they're dead. Okay, let me think about where to go. Let me about what, let me think about what I want to say here. I feel
Sienna 53:05
like I don't know. I feel like I've feeling like maybe I made your job hard or something.
Josh Lavine 53:11
Oh, no, please. Yeah, no. Any self consciousness you feel you should just erase that. Because I'm feeling, I'm feeling, this is, this is really lovely. Well,
Sienna 53:20
okay, good,
Josh Lavine 53:21
yeah, this is great.
Sienna 53:22
I'm glad I'm good. Thank you for telling me yeah. What feels beautiful about it to you? I
Josh Lavine 53:40
i, let's see, yeah, it's like,
just feel like I
just like, I got to really See you. I'm getting to really see you. And I
I feel like. I feel like, as a three or whatever framing we want to put on, I just feel like,
yeah, it's just really beautiful how I how,
Sienna 54:41
how like
Josh Lavine 54:49
available your tenderness is to you. It's kind of like your acting teacher who said he misses having you cry in class, just like, Oh, I love that. I just like, so wonderful to have someone. So willing to emote. You know, it helps me get in touch, like I've been tearful, a little bit like just being in your presence here, because it feels like all the layers of feels like legs Calm down, and like all the layers of pretense and even what, what this conversation was supposed to be just like, everything just falls away, and what's here is just like, just like heart, like a pureness, yeah,
Sienna 55:30
yeah, you really helped me get there, you know, like, or I was already there. You helped me just kind of like, take down all the all the layers, the bags, whatever metaphor you want to use. Honestly, Josh, I think that's why I wanted to do the interview. I shouldn't start it's like, because I know I had this capacity, and I think I just wanted to be able to share it with other eights, people who have eights in their lives, just like, This is what it can look like.
Josh Lavine 56:11
Yeah, yeah. You know it's, it's, it's like, it's so sweet. Just like, it just is so sweet. I love it.
Sienna 56:22
Ah. Yeah,
yeah. I'm a very sweet person. I'm so hard on myself. I just it's so nice to be reminded about, like, being able to give that to myself. You know? It's nice. Yeah,
yeah. So, okay.
Josh Lavine 56:43
So, like, what? So like legs or like this. I'm wondering about this for myself too. So maybe we explore this together. Okay, why is it? Why? Why is it hard to remember this?
Sienna 57:05
Personality here.
Josh Lavine 57:08
I mean, we have, like, all the theory I have, like, I
Sienna 57:10
could write, I am
Josh Lavine 57:11
writing a book on it, but, like, at the same but at the same time, I'm like, this is a this is every time I drop into this, it's like, it's fresh and it's and it's and it's beautiful, and it's alive, and it's and it's, it's like post theory, or pre theory, or something like that.
Sienna 57:32
Well, it's like, there's a level of like, honestly, it's like letting go of the identity, you know, instead of like, clinging to this is, this is what I am, this thing. And I feel like sometimes that's one thing that I struggle with, the Enneagram is like, okay, you've identified the behavior patterns to be in this form. But then it's like, worn on again. You know what I mean? It's sort of like, Oh, I've identified these things in me. This is me. And it's like, no, it's not. So I think that what's wonderful is like, that we have been able to drop into like, how we're connected and and able to like, be with each other in in just as we are, I guess, yeah, there isn't trying to like, show anything or prove anything, or like, see, I'm this. It's like, No, we're just existing, and that's going to show it itself. It's like trusting in our, in ourselves, yeah, or something.
Josh Lavine 58:47
I have a question for you.
Sienna 58:49
I like questions.
Josh Lavine 58:50
I'm I'm curious about the picking fights thing, yeah, like, because I just, I don't do that. I don't relate. It's like, I don't have, like, in my very first ready test that I took years ago, like, eight was the lowest thing. And it's like, I have, I have such a fascination with
Sienna 59:11
fighting, like, yeah.
Josh Lavine 59:15
And I even have, like, I have even a part of me that that wishes I were more of a fighter, you know, or like, or want, or something like, like, there's something about that energy that I've been trying to integrate into myself, you know, and so, so I'm fascinated by people for whom it's a reflex. Yeah, yeah,
Sienna 59:43
I'm honestly it's, it's a complicated question, right? Because there's a spectrum of, there's a spectrum of what I what fighting. Is used for for me and like, confrontation is so natural in some ways, when I feel wronged that
it's like, gotta get it out in the open. It's like, Why do I want someone to fight with me?
I don't really know what, why I need that, but it's sort of like, because, really honestly, it's the conversation after the fight that actually makes me feel good. It took me a long what? Yeah. But
Josh Lavine 1:00:40
it's kind of like the fight. The fight helps in a certain way to get there.
Sienna 1:00:45
It does. If it does, it's a nice release. Like, I like, in some ways it's a nice release to be like, to get in someone's face about something, but not just getting in someone's face, but it's just sort of like, hey, that that that was fucked up, you know? Yeah, right. And it feels, it feels like a it feels good to be able to stand up for myself. And I feel like that that is a way that what fighting does. It's sort of like, this is a tool that I have to be like, the way you treated me was not okay, or like I need. You know, that's where it comes from. Now, it's harder, sometimes in a fighting place to say what I need, because that's really what's underneath there is like, I need these things, or I didn't get what I what I needed, or I'm feeling disappointed or hurt. There's all these feelings underneath, but on top is anger, and anger is like, it's sometimes it's hard for me to like, I it just blankets the whole experience, and then later I'm like, Oh, I was, I was really disappointed by the way they talked to me or like that. Made me feel really sad that they felt like they could just walk all over me like that or something, but in the moment, it's like that that really is what, what colors everything, and so it, I don't know it makes sense to defend myself in some ways, but then it looks like other another thing, Josh, we're like sometimes I maybe I'm just annoyed. Had a bad day, and I just maybe the other person's having a great day. This is and I just, like, start a stupid fight because I'm like, bored or I don't like that. They're that, they're they're not feeling shitty too. I don't like when I do that. I'm getting so much better at it, but, but it is kind of like I had a shitty day. I don't want to feel shitty, so I've got to get it off me. And so that's what, like fighting can do sometimes, is like it helps me get it Get off me, and honestly, it goes to the other person, and now they're feeling kind of shitty, and I yeah, that's experience. I've experienced it on the other end, like with my dad, where he's had a bad day at work and he'll just, like, pick a fight with me, or just, or just have like, super negative energy. And and then I'm feeling like total shit, and he's feeling great. And I'm like, What the hell not cool.
I can see how, yeah,
yeah. It's just like, it feels fighting is a, definitely a tactic for different things, but it feels like a way to protect myself in the in the long run, but in unhealthy places, it can be like a manipulative tool to just feel better.
Josh Lavine 1:03:53
Yeah, do you want? Do you want the other person to fight back?
Sienna 1:03:57
Yes,
yes, yes. The the not fighting back is very infuriating, sure. Okay, yeah, yeah. When, when there isn't a fighting back, I'll push harder and poke more to get it, and then once I got it, I'm like, Whoa. What's your problem?
Sometimes or no, it's nice. It's nice. Sometimes, alright, let's fight like James won't fight with me. Sometimes Interesting. Yeah, I've been learning other ways to we do a lot of like non violent communication, oh yeah, and also a couple's. Dialog really works well for us as a way to connect so it tempers my. A need for fighting as a way of, way of connecting. It's, I feel like it's, but if we're both fighting, then it's like, All right, we're like, working it out. But it never, honestly, not. It doesn't. I don't experience a lot of times where the fighting feels good, to be honest. Yeah, I don't know the fighting doesn't feel good for me. Josh it any anymore as much. I mean, I love that I can take care of myself in that way, but it's not at this point. It's not giving me what I want. What I want is to feel heard, and no one's hearing me if I'm like yelling, but in the moment, it feels like very justified. Like,
Josh Lavine 1:05:43
yeah, there's because it's this, is, this is the mystery of the whole thing for me, is that, tell me is that fighting sometimes feels good and and is important. And, like, for example, we tell nines all the time, you know, yeah, get in touch with your anger. You know, learn how to it's okay. Your anger is it's there. It's you're allowed to express it. And so, so anger and fighting aren't just categorically, like, bad in the same way that legs isn't necessary, like, it's not just the demon that lives in you. It's like, it's also this entity that provides you with a certain kind of strength and and a, you know, there's a, it's, it's, it's, there's a friendliness to it, you know what I mean? Or there's a, it's like, part of your inner spirit world, yeah,
Sienna 1:06:37
that's so that's so true. I think I'm, like, trying to frame it as, like, ah, but it like, yeah, that's, that's so true. Like, it, it's so such a healthy communicator as well. Like, anger lets you know, like something's not some you're not getting something you need, or something is off here. I think also it can be healthy in that way.
Josh Lavine 1:07:00
Yeah. So somewhere in there there's just, like, this mysterious dynamic, like, optimal expression point between, like, not expressing your anger and over expressing your anger, you know, and that's not, there's no formula for that, but there's some. There's something where it's like, you know, it's okay to say something was fucked up, that you or that you felt wronged about something. It's an important part of relationship and just communicating that you have needs. And it's also a good idea not to, like, overdo that and, like, you know, blast the cannon all the time and and scare the other person away or beat them into submission or whatever. And so, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I just honestly, genuinely facet. I'm just like, this is, it's a really interesting space for me, because I tend to fall on the under Express category. And I'm like, yeah, what's the right how do I, how do I work with that?
Sienna 1:08:01
Yeah, I definitely feel
connected to anger, and I definitely feel like I
when it tips to an over expression, I feel very justified in feeling all of the anger that I feel, and I feel justified to express All of it, right, right? And I think that I
um, it's
vulnerable and difficult sometimes to just sit with with the anger you know like to to be with the feeling, because it my body gets so hot inside so fast that it's like before I even am thinking I've already acted on it. That's excellent, yeah, so like I work at a women's clothing store,
Josh Lavine 1:09:11
someone
Sienna 1:09:13
will say something fucking stupid, and I immediately like that. The that it runs through my body like the other day. Can I give an example, or should we just No, please, please. Good. Yeah, very simple example. This woman is already trying to rush me because she comes in. It's like, I got it. I'm late for a hair appointment, and she's like, wanting to rush the transaction, and I'm just, and the woman I work with, you know, I can feel her already getting irritated and just sort of like, I'm not dealing with this person kind of thing. And I just go, she says she's already hinted a couple times, and she's got this hair appointment and but she directly. Says, Well, you know, I'm already late for this hair appointment, and I go, that happens to the best of us. And she was just like, she just was like, I was like, Oh, it happens to the best of us. But inside, I'm just like, Fuck you lady. And so it's just a way of like, you don't really shouldn't. Maybe it sounds like nothing, but in retail, like those kind of things, like, impact pretty hard, you know, like, they don't know me or anything. And so I'm just sort of like, oh, it happens to the best of us, which I'm really just saying, like, shut up, like, and I'm slowing this down, but, like, that's a, you know, a minor example. But it's like, I'm already, like, I am addressing the thing before I've even thought about whether I really should say that or not.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think I told you about another instance with the guy and the dog,
Josh Lavine 1:10:48
yeah. Do you want to share that story? Sure, yeah. We're
Sienna 1:10:53
i This is a great example of picking a fight as well, whereas, like, I'm see this guy walking his dog doesn't have a leash, and I already just really loathe that, because I don't think it's fair for people to assume that everyone likes dogs or wants to be around them. I like dogs, but I just don't need them. I don't like them in my space without my consent, and so he's coming my way. I go into the street because we're in the Midwest, and people are nauseously polite, and I know that when he comes towards me, he's going to say something. And so he says, oh, sorry, you gotta go in the street. He doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't hurt any anybody. And I'm like, I don't want, I just say, I don't want that, right? I don't want that. And he goes, Oh, he's not gonna bother you. And then he says something else. And I just turn around, and I just yelled at him. I don't even remember what comment I made now, but I was just sort of like, I might even just said, like, have a great day, or, like, I'm not interested in that, or something. I just was just sort of like, Get off me, you know. And then I calmed down and kept going. But it was just sort of like it felt my, you know, space invaded so quickly. It's, it's, it's no big deal. I mean, just just go in the street. I mean, also sure it's fine to, like, feel that anger, but just that the the need to let him know that what he did was not okay. Happens so quickly. And I was ready to, I was ready to fight with him about it, but he was just walking his dog. He didn't really care, right?
Josh Lavine 1:12:38
Yeah, so, I guess, you know, from an inner work point of view, what, what eight is invited into is expanding your window of tolerance for that inner the heat, you know, like, if your threshold is here, just expanding it to, well, wherever it can go, so that the reflex is so that you're now run by the reflex.
Sienna 1:13:04
Ooh, I love that. Oh, if you have any tools or tips for that, I would really love it, because I've I cut my partner off all the time, when we're talking like, I'm just constantly cutting him off. And partly because it's like, oh, you said something that I have a feeling towards. I'm like, I gotta go. I gotta, I gotta say something about this and but, you know, but then that also with partners can, and my partner will enable that by, like, just not talking, or like he'll cut himself off because he's used to me cutting cutting him off. Oh,
Josh Lavine 1:13:49
interesting. Okay, he's like, expecting
Sienna 1:13:52
right? So it's like he's uncomfortable with me not talking as well.
Josh Lavine 1:13:57
Oh, wow. Because the whole I get it, that's Yeah, so
Sienna 1:14:00
it's like my behavior is enabled, but then also resented.
Josh Lavine 1:14:06
That's, yeah, yeah. I mean, I have ideas, but I'm curious what, what have you tried, what's and what's and what impact has it had?
Sienna 1:14:22
I feel like the tools that I have, I do with them, what I did with the legs paper, just kind of, I know it's in the desk, and it's like accessible, but I don't feel like I really, I don't know maybe I'm not giving myself enough credit, but I don't feel like I use a lot of tools. I think sometimes I try, because I do meditate night. I try to stay with the I try to move through the feeling without saying anything, you know, like, okay, that rush is coming. Let it. Let's see where it goes. Um. That I find that difficult when, when I'm in an interaction with someone, um, since I was a kid, I was trying, I try to implement the 10, counting down from 10, but I get to, like, I don't get to a number.
Josh Lavine 1:15:21
That's hilarious. I mean, so just to bring in an Enneagram concept, so like as a reactive type, it's just really helping me get a little more into the world of what it means to be a reactive type. Because for me as a as a three, it's like I could do that count to 10 thing, I could I could count down from 100 but it's honestly and it's the challenge for me is to actually get to the point where I actually say something. In fact, the longer I count, probably the better for me, but the or the that would play more into my pattern, you know what I'm saying. So it's really interesting. It feels like we're kind of exploring this issue from opposite poles, you know, yeah, yeah. And,
man, yeah, it's, I don't, I don't know that there's a better demonstration of of like, what the the importance of cultivating presence, or something like that. Then, like, both of these examples we're bringing to this issue, it's like being, having, like, self remembering, you know, like so often, and I've done this a million times. I know so many tools, but it's like, we, we learn a tool and then it goes to the bottom of our desk, just like that, legs, paper and and then there we are, just kind of operating out of habit, and presence is what's supposed to bring us back and help us self remember, so that we have access to the tool in the moment we need it. But if we're operating from habit, not from presence, then it's just not available. Yeah? That's just kind of the simple truth.
Sienna 1:17:01
Yeah, yeah, that's so true. And thinking it's so true and thinking about presence, it's like, it's pretty remarkable that I can experience that level of like, intensity inside my body. Like, why would I want to get rid of it so fast? Like, why not stay with it a little bit longer? Because it's pretty it's pretty incredible, like, someone does something, or experience something, and then there's, like, this internal heat, but I try and get rid of it very fast, because I it's like, it's like, I want to get it out of me. So I almost wondered if, like, staying with it could, could could benefit me a little bit like, I mean, it's it another way to say it is like, oh, have, like, a a medit meditative moment with yourself that I feel like that's something people say, like, have, like, feel your feet on the ground. But I think I'm thinking about it more of like, yeah, self remembering, as opposed to some sort of external tool, like, what's, what's self remembering, self pres, like, presence, like, what's happening right now? I love it. That's the theme of of this. In some ways, it's like, what's happening right now? Yeah, totally. Very powerful. It's very cool.
Josh Lavine 1:18:20
I was also just, I just had the thought, you know, you know, the framework around the virtues of the Enneagram, yeah, the virtue of eight is innocence, yeah. And I just, I love that so much. And I experienced that so much from you. Thank you. It's like, a quality of just, like, like, just this moment, just the wonder of, like, oh my god, like, presence,
Sienna 1:18:40
you know that? Yeah, yeah. I
you know that was something that, like back in the day when I met John, John La COVID. So that was something that he commented when, when we met, of like him, seeing this like innocence in me, and this connection to vulnerability in a way that, like he'd read about it in relation to eight, but like really experiencing it with me and I, I, yeah, I think it's something that I have always had and cultivated. But also, like, I had, I had a really, like, in a lot of ways, a really beautiful childhood, and was, like, nurtured in a really wonderful way. So I think that that also I it was protected by the people in my life as well, this innocence and survival. Appreciate, yeah. It is, yeah, it is.
So
Josh Lavine 1:19:47
I'm noticing the time and cool, and I'm thinking, this has been really lovely. Glad you feel that way. Yeah. I'm curious how this has been for you. What's this like? And. Also, yeah, how are you feeling? And is there anything that we haven't talked about that you definitely want to
Sienna 1:20:08
get to? Okay, I'll answer both questions. One, I had this didn't go the way that I thought it was gonna go. I don't know what I thought, but I think I thought we were gonna, just like, get heady, nerdy about the Enneagram. And I just love that you, you just helped me come to myself, you know? And, yeah, I don't know that there's like, an ease that I felt during it. I think I didn't feel in I think I didn't feel in control of it, which was nice, like, but it was a little hard for me. I think that's partly like, I don't know where I go with wanting to talk about Enneagram. So it was nice to really talk about myself as I am, and also I just talking about my artist self was was really healing. And, yeah, I don't know, I just, I really appreciate you, and the way you were able to keep, like, digging for what was really here. It's nice. And one thing that is coming up for me, I know, is, like, in terms of something else we want to talk about going back to, like, fighting a little bit. Well, one thing, I guess, I have a question, like, do you a big question? Do you think that personality, this big one is born, like, what like when you're born, or like when you're in, like, the birthing process, or before that, like, where, when do you think personality sets in? I have no idea. Okay, well, it's kind of a leading question, because I have a feeling about it. I like my birthing experience. I feel like really set up how I interact in the world, and that's that I was born 10 days late, really, okay, yeah. And my mom didn't know that I never say this word correctly, so you can help me just station gestational diabetes. So she had that. But they didn't know until I came out and I had these, like, Josh, these, like, huge cheeks. They're like, diabetic baby cheeks. And so as soon as they saw me, they were like, oh shit. We got to get her on some insulin right now. And so, like, the entire time I was in the womb, I was, like, pumping out insulin and like, just trying to survive, like trying to stay alive, because I really shouldn't have been alive for that long after when I was supposed to be born. So, like, this idea of like, having to fight, having to work for whatever it is that I care about and care for, is something that has always been there, and it's pretty miraculous, you know, like, what a wonderful, positive way of fighting is fighting to to be alive here in this world. But I really, I do identify with that, and it's something that I feel is i
is part of my superpower, but also part of the thing that I'm Like allowing myself to receive gentleness and ease and softness and that things can come to you. And I was doing a coaching session with another eight, and we were coaching each other, and it was so sweet, how, like, we were both coaching each other about, like, I'm enough. Like, there's a lot of like, I'm enough. I like allowing, allowing to receive. You know, there's like this, this giving so much, just going out and allowing things to come to me, like, even just in this interview, you know? I don't need to, I don't need to prove that I'm an eight I don't have to approve or show you anything. I'm just like here, you know? And when I'm allowing myself to receive and let things in, it's like when. What I want actually happens, you know.
Josh Lavine 1:25:04
So I, I know we're, I'm sensitive about the time, but I will just make one more point. It feels like, it feels like there's this, there's this meeting where it's like, if you feel received, then you also can receive.
Sienna 1:25:27
Wow, okay,
I was so ready to reject that, Josh. I was like, No, but I um, yeah, I think that. I think that's true.
If I feel received,
I can receive, yeah, I felt that in this interview,
Josh Lavine 1:25:47
yeah, that's what I was thinking, yeah, yeah, whoa.
Sienna 1:25:51
That's something to experience. I love that. Yeah.
Josh Lavine 1:26:02
Cool. Cool. So, yeah, um, I'm Yeah. So this has been okay for me. This has been incredibly rich and really beautiful. I love her. You.
Sienna 1:26:14
I don't know something about like, when you're thinking, like, when you're when you're thinking, or you're like, on to something, like, I feel you onto something. I don't know why, Josh, it just like, I'm like, I just go here. I don't know why, but it's just like, I go to this, like, wave. It's like, I can feel you like you're like, cooking something. And just like, Yeah, okay, where are we going? Yeah.
Josh Lavine 1:26:36
It's like, ready, stance. Like, Oh,
Sienna 1:26:38
okay, what's, what's, what's next?
Josh Lavine 1:26:41
I I can't wait to watch this back and and just,
Sienna 1:26:46
I'm nervous about it. I'm worried you're not gonna have anything that you want
Josh Lavine 1:26:53
that's fascinating, that you have that fear. I'm like,
Sienna 1:26:55
This is the worst one you ever did, because I made it really complicated and just confusing. Just like, Oh, but I know that's not true. Yeah, I
Josh Lavine 1:27:04
don't think it's true.
Sienna 1:27:06
Yeah, okay,
wow. Well, I really enjoyed I learned a lot about myself and about you, and just like,
Yeah, it's really cool. I
can't thank you enough for having me on and I feel like you're very aligned with the name of your podcast.
Josh Lavine 1:27:24
Thank you. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate you reaching out to to do this and and just for your energy and for your for your willingness to go there and to to arrive where we have arrived. So thank you.
Sienna 1:27:42
I received that. Yeah,
Josh Lavine 1:27:45
okay, until next time.
Sienna 1:27:46
Until next time. Thank you, Josh,
you're welcome. Bye. You
